News:

For some, the heat of summer nears its end. . . And for others, the blooms of spring appear.

Main Menu

Those we Redwallers call 'Mary-Sues.'

Started by Cornflower MM, June 30, 2015, 02:41:06 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Starla1431

Quote from: Jetthebinturong on July 07, 2015, 01:07:57 AM
We always think about the Mary Sues but what about the Gary Stus? Can you think of a single character flaw in any of the main male protagonists?

Deyna? Or aka The Taggerung. I find him a bit of a Gary Stu.

Jetthebinturong

No I mean, can you think of any that aren't? Any character who's a bit stupid? Any who can't fight? No. I think the only male protagonist who isn't a sue is Mattimeo and he's insufferable anyway. That's why I forgive Redwall for its sues, because they're just a few among many.
"In the meantime, no one should roam the camp alone. Use the buddy system."
"Understood." Will looked at Nico. "Will you be my buddy?"
"You're a dork," Nico announced.
~ The Hidden Oracle, Rick Riordan

Starla1431

Quote from: Jetthebinturong on July 07, 2015, 01:12:42 AM
No I mean, can you think of any that aren't? Any character who's a bit stupid? Any who can't fight? No. I think the only male protagonist who isn't a sue is Mattimeo and he's insufferable anyway. That's why I forgive Redwall for its sues, because they're just a few among many.

I can think of Uggo.

Skyblade

Wow. I did mention Gary Stus earlier. Well, I always thought that Martin and the like were very... righteous and incredible. But does that make them Stus?

Hope to have a friendly debate, and not a vehement argument.

Thanks, MatthiasMan, for the avatar!

Jetthebinturong

Quote from: Starla1431 on July 07, 2015, 01:23:30 AM
Quote from: Jetthebinturong on July 07, 2015, 01:12:42 AM
No I mean, can you think of any that aren't? Any character who's a bit stupid? Any who can't fight? No. I think the only male protagonist who isn't a sue is Mattimeo and he's insufferable anyway. That's why I forgive Redwall for its sues, because they're just a few among many.

I can think of Uggo.

Eh, I consider Gorath the protagonist of that book. But Uggo is definitely not a Stu.

Quote from: Skyblade on July 07, 2015, 03:59:44 AM
Wow. I did mention Gary Stus earlier. Well, I always thought that Martin and the like were very... righteous and incredible. But does that make them Stus?

Not in and of itself but if they have no negative qualities (which they don't in my view.) then they are Stus. That's why I don't understand the argument that Mariel is a Sue. She can't sing, she's angry and rude, she uses a rope as a weapon, she's impetuous and, to be quite frank, rather stupid. She mellows out by Bellmaker but in her own book I can't call her a Sue.
"In the meantime, no one should roam the camp alone. Use the buddy system."
"Understood." Will looked at Nico. "Will you be my buddy?"
"You're a dork," Nico announced.
~ The Hidden Oracle, Rick Riordan

Dannflower Reguba

       Reminder, this topic is specifically about Marry Sues, and I could go on for quite awhile about flawed male characters (Dandin was useless [Mariel, go figure], Samkim was too eager/ headstrong, Gonff was a thief, Dannflor had an inferiority complex, Tammo was disrespectful, and Martin struggled with severe depression. I could go on, but I'm already going against what I stated at the start of the post).
"Remember, sometimes is best to be like boomerang and come back." ~ Griffen

Experience is simply the name we give our mistakes. ~ Oscar Wilde

Mistakes can make you grow - That doesn't mean you're friends. ~NF - Remember This

The Skarzs

 Martin had his flaws, though they weren't very abundant. For example, he did his share of lying, like with the Gawtrybe and I believe somewhere in Legend of Luke. He also tricked that hedgehog so he could knock out his rotten tooth.
 Many of us know people in real life who seem to have no real visible flaws/bad spots. This doesn't mean they aren't there, we either don't notice them through seeing what is good about them or something else.
Cave of Skarzs

Cave potato.

rrrrr

rrrrr.....

Ho arr, mateys, swimming is fun!

I had shrimp 'n' hotroot soup today.


James Gryphon

« Subject to editing »

Starla1431



QuoteEh, I consider Gorath the protagonist of that book. But Uggo is definitely not a Stu

You're thinking of Orkwil from Eulalia, I'm talking about the hedgehog from The Rogue Crew.

Skyblade

I don't see why we can't talk about Gary-stus in this thread.

How does one identify a Sue, anyway? Some are rather debatable.

Thanks, MatthiasMan, for the avatar!

Lady Ashenwyte

Quote from: Skyblade on August 17, 2015, 08:54:44 AM
How does one identify a Sue, anyway? Some are rather debatable.
Sues are generally perfect and without major flaws. That's the core of it.
The fastest way to a man's heart- Or anyone's, in fact- Is to tear a hole through their chest.

Indeed. You are as ancient as the soot that choked Pompeii into oblivion, though not quite as uncaring. - Rusvul

Just a butterfly struggling through my chrysalis.

Skyblade

I know that...it just seems that Sues and Stus are very debatable (ex. Mariel).

Thanks, MatthiasMan, for the avatar!

Dannflower Reguba

       We live in a world were everything is debatable, even if it isn't. Before I continue, I want to state that I'm not pointing out anyone in this thread, I'm simply making a general point. People are heavily opinionated, and will fight tooth & claw to prove that they're right. It doesn't matter if they're obviously wrong, they'll fight to the end because being wrong is.... well, wrong. I personally think that Mariel's the most obvious Sue in the series, others think she's not (again, NOT saying that people that dis-agree with me are blatantly stupid or wrong, just using this as an example), there are now two sides to the same character, and both sides would be willing to present they're interpretation of the same evidence. For instance, one could argue that Mariel isn't a Sue because of her attitude, my counter would be that this is actually proof she is because nothing negative ever comes of her temper. And there you have it, two interpretations of the same evidence. We all tend to see things the way we want them to be, and being human, we want everyone else to see things our way because we're never wrong.
"Remember, sometimes is best to be like boomerang and come back." ~ Griffen

Experience is simply the name we give our mistakes. ~ Oscar Wilde

Mistakes can make you grow - That doesn't mean you're friends. ~NF - Remember This

Jetthebinturong

Saying that nothing negative comes of her temper is a bit silly; she got thrown into the sea because of it.
"In the meantime, no one should roam the camp alone. Use the buddy system."
"Understood." Will looked at Nico. "Will you be my buddy?"
"You're a dork," Nico announced.
~ The Hidden Oracle, Rick Riordan