Have you ever asked your self where are the vermin young, they have to be babies at some point. The only ones I can think of are Veil (The Outcast of Redwall) Vitch (Mattimeo) And the little band of vermin young in (The Rogue Crew)
The books are pretty lacking on any info about vermin society in general, sadly--it's one area that usually has to be filled in by fans. I think a lot of people have their own headcanons about this, which differ a bit from person to person. I really wish we'd seen more about it in canon, though.
This is kind of like the topic I made, but maybe they have like nurse-vermin who take care of them in groups or something.
its one of the bad side effects of the redwall formula i geuss brian didint add them much as it would be a bit sad to have the little vermin branded as bad.
If we're looking at how Mr. Jacques would have written vermin mothers in, it probably be something similar to what we saw in Outcast--Veil is raised by a nursing female or mother, though little care is given in raising them properly. Hence they end up vermin because the parents either don't know any better, don't care, or don't want them to be any different.
There was also the young vermin gang in High Rhulain.
Quote from: Tam and Martin on January 13, 2013, 08:40:04 PM
There was also the young vermin gang in High Rhulain.
Oh I have to reread that book.
I'd love to see a fanfic of vermin culture!
Yes!
In Outcast of Redwall, during the scene where the crows were attacking the horde, I recall reading something along the lines of those with families and young ones claiming the center of the group, so as to be safe from attack. Good parenting, I guess...? XD
Then there was the beginning of Taggerung, too, with whatshername and her son, Tagg's rival -- gosh, I can't remember, I need to reread that book! -- I've always figured that was a good indication of how vermin brought up their young. She complained about having to leave her son on the beach while searching for baby Tagg's food, but evidently it didn't bother her enough to bring him with her or find a nurse, or anything like that.
I think my brain went on vacation when school started up again, I can't for the life of me think of her name..
I don't remember her name either, but her son was Zann.
Her name was Antigra, I think
Yes. Your'e right
Quote from: Leatho Shellhound on January 13, 2013, 08:45:49 PM
Quote from: Tam and Martin on January 13, 2013, 08:40:04 PM
There was also the young vermin gang in High Rhulain.
Oh I have to reread that book.
Yeah but this topic was about vermin who were REALLY young. The vermin gang was mostly young (14-20 years if they were people), but not that young
in the legend of Luke there's Rigdig the little water rat
Quote from: Martin the warrior on February 14, 2013, 10:47:40 PM
in the legend of Luke there's Rigdig the little water rat
Oh ya, I remember..didn't he throw rocks or some thing?
i don't know haven't read that one yet (6 MORE POSTS)
Quote from: Mattio on February 16, 2013, 02:44:09 AM
i don't know haven't read that one yet (6 MORE POSTS)
It's a really good book, Which one are you reading at the moment?
Triss I got Loamhege too (4 MORE POSTS)
Quote from: Mattio on February 16, 2013, 02:48:30 AM
Triss I got Loamhege too (4 MORE POSTS)
Triss is the Last book I got....still have to read it.
oh it's very good so far. (1 MORE DRATTED POST)
Quote from: Leatho Shellhound on January 12, 2013, 10:49:34 PM
Have you ever asked your self where are the vermin young, they have to be babies at some point. The only ones I can think of are Veil (The Outcast of Redwall) Vitch (Mattimeo) And the little band of vermin young in (The Rogue Crew)
Vitch wasn't THAT young, remember? Just small, I guess.
I had wondered about that
Quote from: Redwaller on January 14, 2013, 03:18:25 AM
I don't remember her name either, but her son was Zann.
Yeah, but then it got changed to Gruven.
Quote from: Shadowed One on May 03, 2013, 03:44:41 PM
Quote from: Redwaller on January 14, 2013, 03:18:25 AM
I don't remember her name either, but her son was Zann.
Yeah, but then it got changed to Gruven.
Yes because his father was named Gruven also.
Quote from: phoenixfoden on January 13, 2013, 12:50:58 AM
its one of the bad side effects of the redwall formula i geuss brian didint add them much as it would be a bit sad to have the little vermin branded as bad.
Sad? You're missing the greater unfortunate implication of branding entire species as evil:
I've never known the "good" beasts to take prisoners or show mercy in battle
at scale, and even young vermin, like Vitch, have been shown to be bad. Therefore, if vermin had towns and cities, then the Redwallers or similar group would find them, raise an army, and Wipe. Them. Out. Everybeast: Not just the adults and the fighters, but the workers and younglings--after all, they'll all grow up evil, so you may as well nip the pernicious flowers in the bud. With a sword. To the throat. The blood of tens of thousands of hapless, helpless vermin would run upon the earth like water on the river Moss. Killing them all would take weeks, and in the intervening time, agonized screams and death-cries would be heard for miles as the 'goodbeasts' did their dirty 'duty' to 'cleanse the earth' of these 'evil races'.
Brian Jacques was no fool. He likely knew full well that racial absolutes and civilian populations don't mix well, and lest he effectively endorse genocide as the answer to ethnic conflict, he simply made vermin hordes appear on the horizon, already fully grown and completely evil.
Interestingly, Weird Al Yankovic wrote a song about this topic called "Weasel Stomping Day". Listen to it and understand the evils of blind adherence to tradition and ruthless dehumanization.
-Duxwing
Ah object tae ze name o' zat zong! Never ze lezz, ze fool 'az been taken care of. Permanently.
Goin' back tae ze zubject, zey deal a lot vith ztuff like ziz in ze X-Men comicz an' ztoriez. Ah'd ezpecially reccomend "God Lovez, Man Killz".
(http://healed1337.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/godlovesmankills2.jpg)
It iz nae like a lot o' zuper'ero comicz, like Fantaztic Four or Batman. It iz nae aboot zuper'eroez fightin' bank robberz.
Quote from: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on May 27, 2013, 01:09:59 AM
Ah object tae ze name o' zat zong!
The song is a satire that favors the weasels; worry not!
Quote
Never ze lezz, ze fool 'az been taken care of. Permanently.
I'm not sure that I understand what you mean.
Quote
Goin' back tae ze zubject, zey deal a lot vith ztuff like ziz in ze X-Men comicz an' ztoriez.
Indeed, they do.
Quote
Ah'd ezpecially reccomend "God Lovez, Man Killz".
Oh great, a religious book? Eugh.
Quote
(http://healed1337.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/godlovesmankills2.jpg)
It iz nae like a lot o' zuper'ero comicz, like Fantaztic Four or Batman. It iz nae aboot zuper'eroez fightin' bank robberz.
It's about hatred and discrimination--growing up different in a homogeneous world. I'm sure that many could relate to such a narrative.
-Duxwing
Quote from: Duxwing on May 26, 2013, 11:56:25 PM
Quote from: phoenixfoden on January 13, 2013, 12:50:58 AM
its one of the bad side effects of the redwall formula i geuss brian didint add them much as it would be a bit sad to have the little vermin branded as bad.
Sad? You're missing the greater unfortunate implication of branding entire species as evil:
I've never known the "good" beasts to take prisoners or show mercy in battle at scale, and even young vermin, like Vitch, have been shown to be bad. Therefore, if vermin had towns and cities, then the Redwallers or similar group would find them, raise an army, and Wipe. Them. Out. Everybeast: Not just the adults and the fighters, but the workers and younglings--after all, they'll all grow up evil, so you may as well nip the pernicious flowers in the bud. With a sword. To the throat. The blood of tens of thousands of hapless, helpless vermin would run upon the earth like water on the river Moss. Killing them all would take weeks, and in the intervening time, agonized screams and death-cries would be heard for miles as the 'goodbeasts' did their dirty 'duty' to 'cleanse the earth' of these 'evil races'.
Brian Jacques was no fool. He likely knew full well that racial absolutes and civilian populations don't mix well, and lest he effectively endorse genocide as the answer to ethnic conflict, he simply made vermin hordes appear on the horizon, already fully grown and completely evil.
Interestingly, Weird Al Yankovic wrote a song about this topic called "Weasel Stomping Day". Listen to it and understand the evils of blind adherence to tradition and ruthless dehumanization.
-Duxwing
The good beasts would never kill the vermin young. Think back through the books, Duxwing. In the
Outcast of Redwall, did they kill Veil? No they didn't! Yes, yes, I know that you're going to say,
they didn't like him and they kicked him out. But wait, the abbey beasts did the same thing to Orkwil Prink! So its not just vermin who are "outlawed" from the Abbey.
Another thing, the abbey beasts spared the lives of the vermin several times. The slave band from the book
Mattimeo comes to mind, The vermin army at the end of the book
Taggerung, and many more.
-Leatho
Yes, the goodbeasts would never massacre, that would be totally uncharacteristic. I don't think that Brian Jacques would ever have even thought of such a thing, that would turn the goodies into baddies.
Quote from: Duxwing on May 27, 2013, 04:43:07 PM
I'm not sure that I understand what you mean.
Zat iz probably for ze better.
Quote from: Duxwing on May 27, 2013, 04:43:07 PM
Oh great, a religious book? Eugh.
Nay, it iznae a religiouz book. Zat'z juzt ze title. Ze ztory iz aboot ziz man vho iz goin' on ziz cruzade an' killin' mutantz becauze 'e believez zat humanz are creationz o' god, vhile mutantz are creationz o' ze devil; zae 'e believez it iz god'z vill for him tae kill mutantz. Ye zhould really read it. Ze endin' turnz oot tae be quite unexpectin'.
Quote from: Leatho Shellhound on May 27, 2013, 11:16:44 PM
The good beasts would never kill the vermin young.
These are the same beasts that wiped out Cluny's horde to the last. No prisoners? They
all fought to the death? All too
convenient.
Quote
Think back through the books, Duxwing. In the Outcast of Redwall, did they kill Veil? No they didn't! Yes, yes, I know that you're going to say, they didn't like him and they kicked him out. But wait, the abbey beasts did the same thing to Orkwil Prink! So its not just vermin who are "outlawed" from the Abbey.
Another thing, the abbey beasts spared the lives of the vermin several times. The slave band from the book Mattimeo comes to mind, The vermin army at the end of the book Taggerung, and many more.
I haven't read Taggerung; how large is the army?
Quote from: Mask on May 27, 2013, 11:22:35 PM
Yes, the goodbeasts would never massacre, that would be totally uncharacteristic. I don't think that Brian Jacques would ever have even thought of such a thing, that would turn the goodies into baddies.
You may think that the goodies wouldn't do something like that, but just imagine yourself sitting in your house. A literal horde of locusts explodes from the wall, ripping and tearing at your flesh. Bravely you stand your ground and wipe them out with nothing more than your bare hands, your quick wits, and the fire in your belly. After cleaning up, you go back to sitting. A week passes. Another horde comes, this time twice as big. Laughing despairingly, you dig in by the couch and take them out. Another week,
another horde, another victory. But this time you've had enough. You buy twelve cans of Raid, a gas mask, and some rubber piping and fashion yourself a crude chemical warfare suit. Stepping through the hole, you find a locust breeding pit. Those locust larvae sure aren't hurting you now, but in just a week they'll be up and at you again. Time to finish this freak-show for good. Without a second thought, you open the valve on the rubber piping and unleash the Raid, wiping out hundreds instantly, thousands in a few minutes. Peeking around, you see more. Another huge blast of Raid, another ten thousand larvae squeal in pain and hiss as their life juices vaporize. You stay in there for three hours until you've absolutely wiped out every last creature in your walls. That sort of extermination is exactly what the Abbeybeasts would do with the vermin. They wouldn't kill out of spite or hate, but self-preservation.
I can just imagine an elite death-squad roving through the burning vermin city, led by a masked slayer known as "The Verminator".
-Duxwing
You can communicate with vermin young. You can't with locusts. There are other alternatives wih vermin.
Quote from: Duxwing on May 29, 2013, 02:07:50 AM
These are the same beasts that wiped out Cluny's horde to the last. No prisoners? They all fought to the death? All too convenient.
By that time the abbey beasts had been fighting Cluny's rats for a long, long time...at the end of which he (cluny) was going to enslave or kill them. Also the shrews don't take prisoners as far as I can remember. The shrews (It's been years since I read the book) were the main fighting force!
Also in the book
Redwall, Matthias spared the life of one of Clunys vermin!
Quote from: Duxwing on May 29, 2013, 02:07:50 AM
I haven't read Taggerung; how large is the army?
It was large, very very large!
Quote from: Duxwing on May 29, 2013, 02:07:50 AM
You may think that the goodies wouldn't do something like that, but just imagine yourself sitting in your house. A literal horde of locusts explodes from the wall, ripping and tearing at your flesh. Bravely you stand your ground and wipe them out with nothing more than your bare hands, your quick wits, and the fire in your belly. After cleaning up, you go back to sitting. A week passes. Another horde comes, this time twice as big. Laughing despairingly, you dig in by the couch and take them out. Another week, another horde, another victory. But this time you've had enough. You buy twelve cans of Raid, a gas mask, and some rubber piping and fashion yourself a crude chemical warfare suit. Stepping through the hole, you find a locust breeding pit. Those locust larvae sure aren't hurting you now, but in just a week they'll be up and at you again. Time to finish this freak-show for good. Without a second thought, you open the valve on the rubber piping and unleash the Raid, wiping out hundreds instantly, thousands in a few minutes. Peeking around, you see more. Another huge blast of Raid, another ten thousand larvae squeal in pain and hiss as their life juices vaporize. You stay in there for three hours until you've absolutely wiped out every last creature in your walls. That sort of extermination is exactly what the Abbeybeasts would do with the vermin. They wouldn't kill out of spite or hate, but self-preservation.
I can just imagine an elite death-squad roving through the burning vermin city, led by a masked slayer known as "The Verminator".
-Duxwing
Were in the Redwall books is there a vermin city with ten thousand vermin young?
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on May 29, 2013, 02:59:22 AM
You can communicate with vermin young. You can't with locusts. There are other alternatives wih vermin.
Right you are.
If anything I'd picture the Redwallers adopting the vermin young and raising them in accordance with how the Abbey beasts were raised. They would never slaughter the vermin young...never.
Quote from: Leatho Shellhound on May 29, 2013, 03:05:04 AM
By that time the abbey beasts had been fighting Cluny's rats for a long, long time...at the end of which he (cluny) was going to enslave or kill them. Also the shrews don't take prisoners as far as I can remember. The shrews (It's been years since I read the book) were the main fighting force!
You're only furthering my point: the Shrews are goodies, but they take no prisoners. Imagine them happening upon the source of all vermin, or even just one village. There would be genocide.
Quote
Also in the book Redwall, Matthias spared the life of one of Clunys vermin!
One measly vermin. What of all the rest, who likely would have surrendered after the losing half their number (most real medieval armies broke and ran after losing only a third)? And furthermore, why didn't the Abbot call the shrews off? He was commander in chief.
Quote
It was large, very very large!
Now by "spare," do you mean rout and not hunt down?
Quote
Where in the Redwall books is there a vermin city with ten thousand vermin young?
There isn't, and the point of this thread is explaining why. :) My point is that Brian knew that the goodies would wipe out the baddies permanently if they could, and he didn't want to tell a genocide story or remove his principal antagonists.
Quote
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on May 29, 2013, 02:59:22 AM
You can communicate with vermin young. You can't with locusts. There are other alternatives wih vermin.
Right you are.
No, wrong you are. Every attempt to raise vermin to be good ends in failure. Vitch, for example, betrays Redwall to Slagar. From this data we can induct that Brian intended vermin, as a race, to be categorically and incorrigibly evil. Therefore, the analogy to locusts is accurate because vermin are evil by nature, not nurture or choice, leaving genocide as the only reasonable way to ensure peace. I know that such a conclusion may upset those accustomed to wonderful, perfect heroes, but it is the inevitable unfortunate implication of racial absolutes and an object lesson in the evils of bigotry. Moreover, you really do seem quite upset at the possibility that such unfortunate implications exist; beware the subtle temptations of emotion when reasoning, and you will prosper. :)
-Duxwing
((EDIT: Nevermind; carry on. :) ))
I just don't picture Brian Jacques having his Abbey mice being capable of genocide Dux. That is crazy. It is not destroying people's images of the heroes he created...he did create them that way. He wanted his abbey beasts to be the shining examples of good. Sure they could have flaws....but genocide and killing off thousands of vermin young....no way.
Quote from: Duxwing on May 29, 2013, 06:13:49 AM
You're only furthering my point: the Shrews are goodies, but they take no prisoners. Imagine them happening upon the source of all vermin, or even just one village. There would be genocide.
We are mainly taking about the abbey beasts. There are lots of good beasts other than abbey creatures that would not take prisoners, rogue crew were even more blood thirsty for vermin blood, as well as Madd.
Quote
One measly vermin. What of all the rest, who likely would have surrendered after the losing half their number (most real medieval armies broke and ran after losing only a third)? And furthermore, why didn't the Abbot call the shrews off? He was commander in chief.
Even though it was only one measly vermin, it proves my point that if the had to chose from saving a life or killing it. They would chose to save. And that vermin might have killed good beasts after that, it might have been better for him to have been slain. But they let him live!
The abbot was almost dead! He died right after the battle! And the abbey beast were sick and mad at the vermin for taking their abbey (aswell as hurting their abbot) And they did let a large lot of them go as said in the book quote below. Another thing the sparrows were also in the fight. And here is a quote from the book
"Were all the horde slain? Did we take no prisoners at all?"
The badger shrugged wearily. "A lot of them tried to escape. We didn't stop them. They managed to unbar the main gate and ran out into the road. There were a big ginger cat and a white owl waiting for them. Hell's whiskers! I've never seen anything like it!"
Basil Stag Hare limped up and threw Matthias a wobbly salute. "Squire Julian and Cap'n Snow. You can talk to them later on, young feller. So they were going to take prisoners and or let them run. As it says there seemed to be a big number that ran from the abbey. But two non-abbey beasts killed them. And it sounds like The badger, Matthias, and Basil weren't to happy about it!
Quote
Now by "spare," do you mean rout and not hunt down?
Long patrol hares and abbey beasts had them out numbered and out matched. They let all of them go unharmed.
Quote
There isn't, and the point of this thread is explaining why. :) My point is that Brian knew that the goodies would wipe out the baddies permanently if they could, and he didn't want to tell a genocide story or remove his principal antagonists.
They would make them move away, they did it with a hord of blood thirsty vermin, why not with babys!
Quote
No, wrong you are. Every attempt to raise vermin to be good ends in failure. Vitch, for example, betrays Redwall to Slagar. From this data we can induct that Brian intended vermin, as a race, to be categorically and incorrigibly evil. Therefore, the analogy to locusts is accurate because vermin are evil by nature, not nurture or choice, leaving genocide as the only reasonable way to ensure peace. I know that such a conclusion may upset those accustomed to wonderful, perfect heroes, but it is the inevitable unfortunate implication of racial absolutes and an object lesson in the evils of bigotry. Moreover, you really do seem quite upset at the possibility that such unfortunate implications exist; beware the subtle temptations of emotion when reasoning, and you will prosper. :)
-Duxwing
Vitch was working for slagar, he was sent there to spy! He would have been betraying slagar if he had become good and lived out his days at the abbey. He didn't even like going to the abbey.
And you could talk to them. There were good vermin in the books. There was one that made boats, he became good!
-Leatho
Quote from: Duxwing on May 29, 2013, 06:13:49 AMFrom this data we can induct that Brian intended vermin, as a race, to be categorically and incorrigibly evil.
What about Romsca, Blaggut, Badredd, Balefur, Grubbage, Bluefen, and Barranca? They seemed like good "vermin" to me! WHAT DID THEY DO? And what's wrong with there being MANY peaceful vermin, only they don't attack so they're never in the story?
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on May 29, 2013, 02:59:22 AM
You can communicate with vermin young. You can't with locusts. There are other alternatives wih vermin.
Actually, ye can communicate vith locuztz, but ze vay 'ov iz nae kenned yet.
Quote from: Romsca on May 29, 2013, 02:39:18 PM
Quote from: Duxwing on May 29, 2013, 06:13:49 AMFrom this data we can induct that Brian intended vermin, as a race, to be categorically and incorrigibly evil.
What about Romsca, Blaggut, Badredd, Balefur, Grubbage, Bluefen, and Barranca? They seemed like good "vermin" to me! WHAT DID THEY DO? And what's wrong with there being MANY peaceful vermin, only they don't attack so they're never in the story?
Ah zorta zink o' Romzca az a Darth Vader type o' vermin, vho at ze end turned oot tae be good.
Blaggut vaz vone o' ze vermin zat only joined 'ordez oot o' fear, zae 'e vaz a good beazt at 'eart.
Badredd an' Balefur vere nae good vermin.
Grubbage did turn oot tae be good, an' Bluefen zoundz like yer kind, gentle motherly type.
An' finally vith Barranca, ah'd zay 'e vaz ztill a vermin, but recognized ze tyranny o' Ublaz an' vaz againzt it.
Well, it seems that vermin always grow up with a tendency toward evil, as seen in Outcast of Redwall. Interesting idea.
Darth Rom.
Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun. Dun dun dun dun dun dun, dun dun dun. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun-dun-dun-dun, dun dun dun-dun-dun, dun dun, dun dun dun, dun dun dun...
Quote from: Duxwing on May 27, 2013, 04:43:07 PM
Quote
Ah'd ezpecially reccomend "God Lovez, Man Killz".
Oh great, a religious book? Eugh.
-Duxwing
If you have something against religion, please be careful with what you say, because that is kind of offending.
What does gagged mean? ANyways, they didn't kill Veil or treat him like a vermin, but he became one anyways.
I think Gagged means you can't come on the forum for awhile because of somethig you've done to it.
Quote from: Tam and Martin on July 10, 2013, 04:32:41 PM
I think Gagged means you can't come on the forum for awhile because of somethig you've done to it.
Ah zink it meanz ye juzt cannae pozt for az long az yer gagged. Ye can probably ztill viev topicz, juzt cannae rezpond tae zem.
Right.
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on July 10, 2013, 03:54:23 AM
Darth Rom.
Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun. Dun dun dun dun dun dun, dun dun dun. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun-dun-dun-dun, dun dun dun-dun-dun, dun dun, dun dun dun, dun dun dun...
LOL! However, it was the Abbot who called her "my child"
Quote from: Romsca on July 10, 2013, 09:16:12 PM
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on July 10, 2013, 03:54:23 AM
Darth Rom.
Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun. Dun dun dun dun dun dun, dun dun dun. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun-dun-dun-dun, dun dun dun-dun-dun, dun dun, dun dun dun, dun dun dun...
LOL! However, it was the Abbot who called her "my child"
Basically the Abbot said "Romsca, my child." = "Romsca, you are my child." = "Romsca, I am your father." DUn dun dun dun.....
haha, wait what? Not sure I get it?
Abbot Durral said "my child" to Romsca.
Romsca = Darth Vader
Who's Darth Vader?
Oh, you haven't seen Star Wars, you'd have to see it to understand. ;)
Haven't seen or read. :)
Quote from: BadgerLordFiredrake on July 11, 2013, 01:55:26 AM
Quote from: Romsca on July 10, 2013, 09:16:12 PM
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on July 10, 2013, 03:54:23 AM
Darth Rom.
Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun. Dun dun dun dun dun dun, dun dun dun. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun-dun-dun-dun, dun dun dun-dun-dun, dun dun, dun dun dun, dun dun dun...
LOL! However, it was the Abbot who called her "my child"
Basically the Abbot said "Romsca, my child." = "Romsca, you are my child." = "Romsca, I am your father." DUn dun dun dun.....
Romsca: NOOOOOOOO!!!! :o
Quote from: Romsca on July 12, 2013, 05:08:07 PM
Quote from: BadgerLordFiredrake on July 11, 2013, 01:55:26 AM
Quote from: Romsca on July 10, 2013, 09:16:12 PM
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on July 10, 2013, 03:54:23 AM
Darth Rom.
Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun. Dun dun dun dun dun dun, dun dun dun. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun-dun-dun-dun, dun dun dun-dun-dun, dun dun, dun dun dun, dun dun dun...
LOL! However, it was the Abbot who called her "my child"
Basically the Abbot said "Romsca, my child." = "Romsca, you are my child." = "Romsca, I am your father." DUn dun dun dun.....
Romsca: NOOOOOOOO!!!! :o
hehehehehehhheeee ::)
Quote from: rachel25 on July 17, 2013, 05:02:54 PM
Quote from: Romsca on July 12, 2013, 05:08:07 PM
Quote from: BadgerLordFiredrake on July 11, 2013, 01:55:26 AM
Quote from: Romsca on July 10, 2013, 09:16:12 PM
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on July 10, 2013, 03:54:23 AM
Darth Rom.
Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun. Dun dun dun dun dun dun, dun dun dun. Dun, dun, dun, dun, dun-dun-dun-dun, dun dun dun-dun-dun, dun dun, dun dun dun, dun dun dun...
LOL! However, it was the Abbot who called her "my child"
Basically the Abbot said "Romsca, my child." = "Romsca, you are my child." = "Romsca, I am your father." DUn dun dun dun.....
Romsca: NOOOOOOOO!!!! :o
hehehehehehhheeee ::)
Anyvaaaay, back tae ze topic...
The locus, okay so by that logic if aliens came to earth and saw our history books they should eliminate us for lasting peace...
If its up to survival maybe the vermin are just trying to survive, its been made clear though the entire Redwall series that woodlanders are better fighters than vermin.
its almost like all vermin are natural bully's. that means the eradication plan is a very necessary step yet it hasn't been done even though the woodlanders are more then capable of achieving a vermin free world.
I think this all go's to portray how noble and forgiving Goodbeats are.
Personally who would you rather be, a creature that can't do bad?
Or a creature that can only do bad?
Easy choice right?
I'm fairly sure that goodbeasts let many vermin go over the course of the series.
In regard to locusts: They are not sentient. Termina argumenta.
Quote from: Leatho Shellhound on January 12, 2013, 10:49:34 PM
Have you ever asked your self where are the vermin young, they have to be babies at some point. The only ones I can think of are Veil (The Outcast of Redwall) Vitch (Mattimeo) And the little band of vermin young in (The Rogue Crew)
Klitch from the book Salamanstron was a good example I believe it did say something about his mother in the book but I don't have it with me to reference at the moment.
There were thousands of skilled vermin fighters.The horde leaders are an example.
This is more about how they were raised. We are listing examples in the books where some reference to the vermin's childhood is made.
I do believe Klitch was not a young rat; rather, his small size enabled him to pass as an adolescent.
What I want to know is. . . What in the name of seasons were the mothers of vermin thinking when they named their children?! (Or were they even named by their mothers at all?)
It seems that most of the vermin names are probably nicknames based on appearance.
Yes, but what would they be called before they gleaned that trait from which their name comes? Some vermin have actual names (though some of them seem rather rough) like Klitch and Grodda, but still.
Eh well, when I make names I either choose an oldder British name (John, Aaron, etc.) or type a bunch of random letters. for example: Onju. See? Easy to make, nice to hear.
Like Edraithel said. I always though that a lot of the names where nicknames like I call you Mr. Vulcan or sweet tart or stone faced toll.... or Skarzsles for that matter. (I have to many nicknames for you... XD)
Vermin names are occasionally actual names, but most of the time its just two short words stuck together to make a compound name,
Example, mine: Sand-Paw Most Vermin names are clearly supposed to sound evil, it reminds me of the movie How too train your dragon and how they named their kids.
Very similar.
Yes, some names might be ones their parents would have liked their offspring to live up to, but it seems odd that if the names they go by are nicknames, that there is no mention of it.
Quote from: Faiyloe on April 21, 2015, 09:14:02 PM
Like Edraithel said. I always though that a lot of the names where nicknames like I call you Mr. Vulcan or sweet tart or stone faced toll.... or Skarzsles for that matter. (I have to many nicknames for you... XD)
Settle on one, then. ;)
It could be a culture thing... We don't mention allot of things like the fact that we take the sir name from the husband. it is just natural and we don't even think about it. (Don't now go off on a tangent saying that people don't always do that It was just an example) Perhaps the vermin change their name when they get older like a coming of age thing. A way to say that they are independent and no longer need their parents or any connection to them.
Vermin names?
Just take the first several first letters of the first several words that you see.
After you pick them, you put them into an anagram machine and see which one sounds good.
Example:
maswosg
becomes
Wagmoss
That sounds like a ratty name.
Maybe...
Quote from: Faiyloe on April 21, 2015, 11:29:16 PM
It could be a culture thing... We don't mention allot of things like the fact that we take the sir name from the husband. it is just natural and we don't even think about it. (Don't now go off on a tangent saying that people don't always do that It was just an example) Perhaps the vermin change their name when they get older like a coming of age thing. A way to say that they are independent and no longer need their parents or any connection to them.
Remember in Taggerung the stoat named Gruven? Antigra (his mother) was going to name him Zann, but Sawney Rath made her change his name to his father's. Gruven kept his name his whole life. Even when he earned the title of Zann, he was called Gruven Zann Juskazann.
Hmm...Interesting...
Maybe every tribe has different naming customs.
Not all vermin were in tribes.
Quote from: Eulaliaaa! on April 22, 2015, 03:08:58 AM
Quote from: Faiyloe on April 21, 2015, 11:29:16 PM
It could be a culture thing... We don't mention allot of things like the fact that we take the sir name from the husband. it is just natural and we don't even think about it. (Don't now go off on a tangent saying that people don't always do that It was just an example) Perhaps the vermin change their name when they get older like a coming of age thing. A way to say that they are independent and no longer need their parents or any connection to them.
Remember in Taggerung the stoat named Gruven? Antigra (his mother) was going to name him Zann, but Sawney Rath made her change his name to his father's. Gruven kept his name his whole life. Even when he earned the title of Zann, he was called Gruven Zann Juskazann.
"earned"
Yes, and in some cases they add on a name that they got from circumstances or battle wounds like Reynard Chopsnout (The Legend of Luke), Plugg Firetail (Triss) and Vizka Longtooth (Eulalia!). Their first name seems to be given them by their parents while their second is something they gave them selves later.
And all though less common, it is also true with some Redwallers, like Corksnout Spikkle (Doomwyte), in which case it's his first name that got added on when he was older.
And sorry for the confusion between Chopsnout and Corksnout....
through this whole thread the discussion has never touched on wildcats. Some, like Gingivere and Julian were good, but most, including Riggu Felis and Tsarmina, were evil.
True.
But I guess that comes back to nurture versus nature, and why they turn out the way they do.
Quote from: Leatho Shellhound on January 12, 2013, 10:49:34 PM
Have you ever asked your self where are the vermin young, they have to be babies at some point. The only ones I can think of are Veil (The Outcast of Redwall) Vitch (Mattimeo) And the little band of vermin young in (The Rogue Crew)
I always thought Vitch was a full grown rat. Just stunted in growth.