Redwall Abbey

Brian Jacques' Works (Spoilers) => History, Legends and Myths => Topic started by: Lord Gorath on November 18, 2012, 02:00:17 AM

Poll
Question: Which would best hold of a mass invasion of the Blue Hordes after the events of Lord Brocktree?
Option 1: Salamandastron votes: 25
Option 2: Palace of Ublaz votes: 2
Option 3: Fort Bladegirt votes: 1
Option 4: Redwall Abbey votes: 8
Option 5: Castle Marl votes: 12
Option 6: Castle Floret votes: 6
Title: Castles and sorts
Post by: Lord Gorath on November 18, 2012, 02:00:17 AM
So, which of these would stand a mass invasion of the largest army in the whole Redwall series?
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: W0NWILL on November 18, 2012, 02:53:12 AM
I'm thinking either Redwall or Salamandastron. Redwall because the Guosim are usually nearby, and the Long Patrol comes by there often. They have moles, which are great for battle; they can dig tunnels behind the enemy lines that can either help the dibbuns escape or a surprise attack for behind. However, the Redwallers don't have the most skill in battle.
My defense for Salamandastron is that Salamandastron is built to withstand a siege, and these sorts of battles almost always end with a siege. Salamandastron has crop fields on the sides, large larders(they have to be so to feed hares!). The hares are trained for battle, and they have a bloody badger lord. The mountain is tough, but not impossible to climb, the badger lord could shove rocks down at any vermin that attempt to. However, Salamandastron does not have moles, and that is bad. Partly because moles are awesome, and also because of the above mentioned use for them. Another, more serious reason is that Salamandastron doesn't have as much friendly creatures nearby compared to Redwall, and can't count on backup.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Lord Gorath on November 18, 2012, 01:49:51 PM
 ;D Nice part about feeding hares, they will eatcha' outta 'ouse and 'ome!
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: AxeHound on November 18, 2012, 06:25:46 PM
I think Castle Marl. It's hard to get to and difficult to attack.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Lord Gorath on November 19, 2012, 01:09:55 AM
Quote from: AxeHound on November 18, 2012, 06:25:46 PM
I think Castle Marl. It's hard to get to and difficult to attack.

But then again there are those wooden planks that were left there.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Redwallfan7 on November 19, 2012, 01:59:44 AM
I'd say Redwall, followed by Salamandastron.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Lord Gorath on November 19, 2012, 02:10:21 AM
Quote from: Redwallfan7 on November 19, 2012, 01:59:44 AM
I'd say Redwall, followed by Salamandastron.

I'd say vice versa.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: phoenixfoden on November 21, 2012, 07:32:22 PM
Castle marl because if you can sink the enemys boats they get eaten by the pike.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Kitsune on December 15, 2012, 07:24:21 PM
I'd say Salamandastron.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: DanielofRedwall on December 16, 2012, 05:23:50 AM
An interesting question... I'm going to go with Redwall and Salamandastron as well. Redwall because it has managed to withstand a lot of massive hordes easily enough (eg Cluny's) and I guess they'd be able to withstand the Blue Hordes as well. They have a distinct advantage with its structure as well, mostly the walls, which was pretty much the only reason that they could defeat Cluny's horde.

Salamandastron because it is an entire mountain of warriors with the job of withstanding such vermin. Badgers and hares are the toughest warriors in the series. Also, they did manage to defeat them in the actual book, so I guess they can do it again. ;)

Castle Floret would go down very easily IMO. Nagru's horde was able to completely take hold of it easily with minimal resistance. Well, minimal resistance until the Redwallers came and organised one. I don't remember much about the other options. :-\
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Leatho Shellhound on December 17, 2012, 04:15:27 PM
No, Castle Floret would have the best chance Because it could only be got to by one side which had a moat and a steep path.
Quote from: DanielofRedwall on December 16, 2012, 05:23:50 AM
Castle Floret would go down very easily IMO. Nagru's horde was able to completely take hold of it easily with minimal resistance. Well, minimal resistance until the Redwallers came and organised one. I don't remember much about the other options. :-\

They were tricked!!!!!! Read the book again, they didn't even know Urgan Nagru had a hord when they let him in.....and then Nagru but a weapon or something of the sort to the kings son making him open the gates!!!

and the redwallers got in by the secret tunnles of the mole!
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Captain Tammo on December 30, 2012, 07:15:22 PM
Absolutely Salamandastron! It is the symbol of military strength in the redwall world! Even though it had been broken into more than once, it'd hold a better chance than any other location in my mind
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Kitsune on March 07, 2013, 05:09:56 PM
Guys, calm down. Seeing a lot of this!!!!!!!!!!!!! ....Might lead to yellling at each other.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Romsca on March 07, 2013, 05:27:28 PM
I think Salamandastron!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Leatho Shellhound on March 07, 2013, 06:45:59 PM
Quote from: PluggFiretail on March 07, 2013, 05:09:56 PM
Guys, calm down. Seeing a lot of this!!!!!!!!!!!!! ....Might lead to yellling at each other.

We arn't yelling, we are talking.  ;)
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Tam and Martin on March 07, 2013, 08:01:42 PM
Redwall for the same reason's Wonwill said
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: cregga rose eyes on March 08, 2013, 07:30:22 PM
Quote from: AxeHound on November 18, 2012, 06:25:46 PM
I think Castle Marl. It's hard to get to and difficult to attack.

I agree Castle Marl would be hard to get to. Probably the hardest to get to out of the options.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Kitsune on March 08, 2013, 08:45:50 PM
It might be difficult to get to... but Salamandastron could hold off a larger force.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Leatho Shellhound on March 08, 2013, 09:13:56 PM
I still go with Castle Floret.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Norham Waterpaw on March 09, 2013, 07:13:15 PM
I'm gonna go with Castle Marl, number one, it's surrounded by pike filled water. Two, how are you ganna get the blue hordes down the tiny river that leads to the lake? And three, in Marlfox, they had REALLY good archers, so that's my reasons
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: KitrallStreamrippler on March 13, 2013, 04:36:51 AM
Redwall- they have willing healers and fighters, and Martin's spirit. Also, the abbey itself has experience. Who was it that said that 'warlords have broken their skulls against its stones'? That's a good quote. *goes to research it*

Salamandastron would definitely be a good place to be, though. One reason besides the aforementioned being that it has solid rock on all sides and on top and bottom. Redwall just has thick stone as its walls.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Leatho Shellhound on March 13, 2013, 12:21:51 PM
Castle Floret is like Salamandastron and the Abbey together. Think about it, the Castle is at the top of a tall rock mountain, with one path leading up to it. There is a drawbridge at the door. So the enemy have to walk up that path in full view, and under fire. Then batter at the gate "flying" over the pit where the drawbridge would normaly be when it is down.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: KitrallStreamrippler on April 01, 2013, 07:59:57 AM
Hmmm. You have a very good point there. I agree (somewhat- if you didn't know, I can be quite stubborn at times).
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on April 02, 2013, 12:25:16 AM
I'n my opinion, The Blue Hordes would beable to take any place as easy as cake (I think it's obviouse why I think this....) But I think that the hardest place for (he he!) My army to take over would be Castle Floret. The only real way in is the drawbridge, which they could easly raise to keep The Blue Hordes out. But even with that, The Blue Hordes would still win in the end...
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Thomas Barkshield on April 08, 2013, 05:35:14 AM
I would say Redwall, because they are completely self- sufficient. Also, it is guarded by martin the warriors spirit ( He's one tough spirit, smart too.).
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Rusvul on April 20, 2013, 03:50:05 AM
Nobody would ever take castle marl. You have to have an army or crows ( or a very strong hawk), a good boat, and the knowledge of where the darn castle is. Flame arrows at a ship sailing in pike infested waters with ravens attacking from above? No way anybeast's getting past that. And if you manage to get to the island, it has all the defenses of Redwall, except the moles and allies. But, a huge army of completely loyal water rats and the eight best strategists ( who also happen to be invisible, awesome fighters, and terrifying) should fill that gap. Any who disagree, please tell me how the heck you'd get past those defenses, or even find the castle. :P
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Leatho Shellhound on April 20, 2013, 04:48:03 AM
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on April 20, 2013, 03:50:05 AM
Nobody would ever take castle marl. You have to have an army or crows ( or a very strong hawk), a good boat, and the knowledge of where the darn castle is. Flame arrows at a ship sailing in pike infested waters with ravens attacking from above? No way anybeast's getting past that. And if you manage to get to the island, it has all the defenses of Redwall, except the moles and allies. But, a huge army of completely loyal water rats and the eight best strategists ( who also happen to be invisible, awesome fighters, and terrifying) should fill that gap. Any who disagree, please tell me how the heck you'd get past those defenses, or even find the castle. :P

They did, and took it.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Rusvul on April 20, 2013, 11:45:45 AM
They sort of cheated. Does the blue hordes have a hawk on their team? Nope. And I assume we are talking about when both armies are full-force, about half the dudes were away when Dannflor attacked.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Thomas Barkshield on April 20, 2013, 02:41:28 PM
All of the marlfoxes were killed after marlfox, so after that castle marl was pretty much useless and defenceless, as the rats didn't have a leader.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Rusvul on April 20, 2013, 07:05:32 PM
I'm reffering to when all the marlfoxes were home, and the rats were full-force
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Leatho Shellhound on April 20, 2013, 08:25:42 PM
I still say Castle Floret is better. And they could kill those birds easily.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on April 20, 2013, 09:23:26 PM
The Blue hords would win due to there large numbers...thats just not something you can reckon with :-\ They might not beable to take, for say, Castle Marl, right away, but they would eventully.
Quote from: Leatho Shellhound on April 20, 2013, 08:25:42 PMthey could kill those birds easily.
Yep. They can be broght down with a javilin, or an arrow even, if you hit the bird in just the right place.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Leatho Shellhound on April 20, 2013, 10:22:06 PM
The blue hords would simply bring their ships in, the birds and pike would be used to feed the vermin.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Rusvul on April 21, 2013, 02:33:05 PM
I still say Castle Marl, I mean, you guys can have your own opinion of course, and I'll respect that, but how would someone get their ships to the lake? It's a large inland lake, you can't sail a ship into it. You'd have to carry it hundreds of miles from the coast. It's near Castle Floret and far from the coast, I just checked my Redwall map :P. Siege wouldn't work, because they have farms on the island. Anyway, I don't want to cause bad feeling, so I'm going to try to stop :P
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: CrazyPug37 on April 21, 2013, 06:45:30 PM
Salamandastron is home to the feared Long Patrol, and it has also been home to Badger Lords for the longest time.  Redwall would also be hard to take over, due to its walls and the power of the "Country Bumpkins", as has been said by many enemies who have tried and failed to take over the Abbey.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Shadowed One on April 27, 2013, 07:38:37 PM
I think Redwall would do well because of its great defenses.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Vilu Daskar on May 14, 2013, 08:23:32 PM
I think Castle Marl because its in the middle of the inland sea.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on May 25, 2013, 12:00:47 AM
Ah'd zay ze pike in ze lake vere more o' a zreat.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on May 25, 2013, 08:36:48 PM
Ah, its soooo nice to have power ;D! And to think that I led them the whole way!
And, I also think that no matter what Fort, Castle or Abbey the laid siege to, they would always win in the end, hence the large numbers.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: CrazyPug37 on May 25, 2013, 09:17:02 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on May 25, 2013, 08:36:48 PM
Ah, its soooo nice to have power ;D! And to think that I led them the whole way!
And, I also think that no matter what Fort, Castle or Abbey the laid siege to, they would always win in the end, hence the large numbers.
Well, they didn't win in Lord Brocktree.  ;D
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on May 25, 2013, 09:39:19 PM
Quote from: CrazyPug37 on May 25, 2013, 09:17:02 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on May 25, 2013, 08:36:48 PM
Ah, its soooo nice to have power ;D! And to think that I led them the whole way!
And, I also think that no matter what Fort, Castle or Abbey the laid siege to, they would always win in the end, hence the large numbers.
Well, they didn't win in Lord Brocktree.  ;D
But they still took over the mountian. Thats what matters!
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Rusvul on May 25, 2013, 11:41:28 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on May 25, 2013, 09:39:19 PM
Quote from: CrazyPug37 on May 25, 2013, 09:17:02 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on May 25, 2013, 08:36:48 PM
Ah, its soooo nice to have power ;D! And to think that I led them the whole way!
And, I also think that no matter what Fort, Castle or Abbey the laid siege to, they would always win in the end, hence the large numbers.
Well, they didn't win in Lord Brocktree.  ;D
But they still took over the mountian. Thats what matters!
Doesn't matter at all if you then die. Which you did. DIE FOUL KITTY!!
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on May 25, 2013, 11:43:25 PM
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on May 25, 2013, 11:41:28 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on May 25, 2013, 09:39:19 PM
Quote from: CrazyPug37 on May 25, 2013, 09:17:02 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on May 25, 2013, 08:36:48 PM
Ah, its soooo nice to have power ;D! And to think that I led them the whole way!
And, I also think that no matter what Fort, Castle or Abbey the laid siege to, they would always win in the end, hence the large numbers.
Well, they didn't win in Lord Brocktree.  ;D
But they still took over the mountian. Thats what matters!
Doesn't matter at all if you then die. Which you did. DIE FOUL KITTY!!
The only reason BJ made Ungatt die was that it was the tradition in the Redwall series for the villun to die!
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: CrazyPug37 on May 26, 2013, 12:01:14 AM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on May 25, 2013, 11:43:25 PM
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on May 25, 2013, 11:41:28 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on May 25, 2013, 09:39:19 PM
Quote from: CrazyPug37 on May 25, 2013, 09:17:02 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on May 25, 2013, 08:36:48 PM
Ah, its soooo nice to have power ;D! And to think that I led them the whole way!
And, I also think that no matter what Fort, Castle or Abbey the laid siege to, they would always win in the end, hence the large numbers.
Well, they didn't win in Lord Brocktree.  ;D
But they still took over the mountian. Thats what matters!
Doesn't matter at all if you then die. Which you did. DIE FOUL KITTY!!
The only reason BJ made Ungatt die was that it was the tradition in the Redwall series for the villun to die!
No, Ungatt Trunn secretly survived and is now hiding in Mossflower Woods.
Run!
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on May 26, 2013, 12:50:22 AM
Ze only reazon vhy 'e vaz able tae take over ze mountain vaz zat it vaz filled vith mostly old beaztz. Durin' ze timez like ze Long Patrol or Zalamandaztron, zat never vould o' 'appened.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on May 26, 2013, 03:35:40 AM
Quote from: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on May 26, 2013, 12:50:22 AM
Ze only reazon vhy 'e vaz able tae take over ze mountain vaz zat it vaz filled vith mostly old beaztz. Durin' ze timez like ze Long Patrol or Zalamandaztron, zat never vould o' 'appened.
Ha! Ungatt Trunn still could have taken it easly enugh!
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Rusvul on May 26, 2013, 08:32:33 PM
Not really. 90% of his beasts were starving, and the other 10% were officers, who didn't ever get on the front lines.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on May 29, 2013, 05:21:45 AM
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on May 26, 2013, 08:32:33 PM
Not really. 90% of his beasts were starving, and the other 10% were officers, who didn't ever get on the front lines.
Thats just because (for the starving part) they lived by the sea, a place were not much food grows. But, say, if they had taken over Redwall, were there was plenty of food...things would be alot different!
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on May 29, 2013, 07:00:37 PM
An' ov, pray tell, vould ze 'ave taken over Redwall?
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on May 29, 2013, 10:24:01 PM
Quote from: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on May 29, 2013, 07:00:37 PM
An' ov, pray tell, vould ze 'ave taken over Redwall?
by force, that's how! They had like 20 times as many creatures as many creatures as Redwall had. Also, they were fighers, were, on the other hand, most of the Redwallers were peaceful creatures. They could take it over easy!
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on May 29, 2013, 10:41:30 PM
'az many a varlord az zaid...
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on May 30, 2013, 03:51:00 AM
Quote from: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on May 29, 2013, 10:41:30 PM
'az many a varlord az zaid...
But Ungatt was more powerful than any other Warlord. He had like 5 times the creatures that Cluny had, and Cluny, I must say, had a pretty powerful hord, though it was nothing compaired to Ungatt's.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: The Shade on June 01, 2013, 02:11:45 PM
Quote from: phoenixfoden on November 21, 2012, 07:32:22 PM
Castle marl because if you can sink the enemys boats they get eaten by the pike.

Yep, I agree with ya ;)
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Rusvul on June 04, 2013, 03:17:28 PM
Erm, Ungatt, you're saying that if you took over Redwall, you'd be strong and well fed, but
1) How would you take over Redwall if you weren't well fed and strong?
2) An army is useless without food. One well-fed strong warrior is worth 20 weak, hungry, tired, dying ones. To quote Basil Stag Hare, "Army marches on it's stomach, wot!". Err, well, to quote lots of hares, actually.
3) Ungatt Trunn had more soldiers, but that didn't mean he was stronger. There was NO WAY he could EVER feed all of those warriors. Say, there are roughly three hundred Redwallers, and you said there are twenty times as many horde-members, so by your estimate, and mine, that'd be 6,000 soldiers, and the Redwallers, in times of peace, were struggling somewhat to feed the five hundred visiting long patrol hares, plus their own number. I'd say the maximum amount of beasts that the Redwallers could have fed would be 1,000, and that's without the hinderance of slavers. Name one set of circumstances where Ungatt could have everybeast in his army well fed. And be specific, back it up with verbal proof.

Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on May 30, 2013, 03:51:00 AM
Quote from: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on May 29, 2013, 10:41:30 PM
'az many a varlord az zaid...
But Ungatt was more powerful than any other Warlord. He had like 5 times the creatures that Cluny had, and Cluny, I must say, had a pretty powerful hord, though it was nothing compaired to Ungatt's.
You contradict yourself. Cluny had 500 beasts, as the book tells us, 5 times that, would be 2,500. Also, had Ungatt been able to feed all his troops and care for them well, he would have been much more powerful than anybeast else. But, again, that is virtually impossible.

Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Leatho Shellhound on June 04, 2013, 03:39:54 PM
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on June 04, 2013, 03:17:28 PM
Erm, Ungatt, you're saying that if you took over Redwall, you'd be strong and well fed, but
1) How would you take over Redwall if you weren't well fed and strong?
2) An army is useless without food. One well-fed strong warrior is worth 20 weak, hungry, tired, dying ones. To quote Basil Stag Hare, "Army marches on it's stomach, wot!". Err, well, to quote lots of hares, actually.
3) Ungatt Trunn had more soldiers, but that didn't mean he was stronger. There was NO WAY he could EVER feed all of those warriors. Say, there are roughly three hundred Redwallers, and you said there are twenty times as many horde-members, so by your estimate, and mine, that'd be 6,000 soldiers, and the Redwallers, in times of peace, were struggling somewhat to feed the five hundred visiting long patrol hares, plus their own number. I'd say the maximum amount of beasts that the Redwallers could have fed would be 1,000, and that's without the hinderance of slavers. Name one set of circumstances where Ungatt could have everybeast in his army well fed. And be specific, back it up with verbal proof.

They would eat the pike.

Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on May 30, 2013, 03:51:00 AM
Quote from: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on May 29, 2013, 10:41:30 PM
'az many a varlord az zaid...
But Ungatt was more powerful than any other Warlord. He had like 5 times the creatures that Cluny had, and Cluny, I must say, had a pretty powerful hord, though it was nothing compaired to Ungatt's.
You contradict yourself. Cluny had 500 beasts, as the book tells us, 5 times that, would be 2,500. Also, had Ungatt been able to feed all his troops and care for them well, he would have been much more powerful than anybeast else. But, again, that is virtually impossible.


Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on June 04, 2013, 07:38:55 PM
Quote from: Leatho Shellhound on June 04, 2013, 03:39:54 PM
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on June 04, 2013, 03:17:28 PM
Erm, Ungatt, you're saying that if you took over Redwall, you'd be strong and well fed, but
1) How would you take over Redwall if you weren't well fed and strong?
2) An army is useless without food. One well-fed strong warrior is worth 20 weak, hungry, tired, dying ones. To quote Basil Stag Hare, "Army marches on it's stomach, wot!". Err, well, to quote lots of hares, actually.
3) Ungatt Trunn had more soldiers, but that didn't mean he was stronger. There was NO WAY he could EVER feed all of those warriors. Say, there are roughly three hundred Redwallers, and you said there are twenty times as many horde-members, so by your estimate, and mine, that'd be 6,000 soldiers, and the Redwallers, in times of peace, were struggling somewhat to feed the five hundred visiting long patrol hares, plus their own number. I'd say the maximum amount of beasts that the Redwallers could have fed would be 1,000, and that's without the hinderance of slavers. Name one set of circumstances where Ungatt could have everybeast in his army well fed. And be specific, back it up with verbal proof.

They would eat the pike.

Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on May 30, 2013, 03:51:00 AM
Quote from: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on May 29, 2013, 10:41:30 PM
'az many a varlord az zaid...
But Ungatt was more powerful than any other Warlord. He had like 5 times the creatures that Cluny had, and Cluny, I must say, had a pretty powerful hord, though it was nothing compaired to Ungatt's.
You contradict yourself. Cluny had 500 beasts, as the book tells us, 5 times that, would be 2,500. Also, had Ungatt been able to feed all his troops and care for them well, he would have been much more powerful than anybeast else. But, again, that is virtually impossible.


How so? It said in Lord Brocktree that when he first arrived, he brought a lot of ships with a lot of vermin soldiers in then, and, if we had taken residence in a place that was plentiful in food, couldn't that make it possible?
And about the whole thing about his army being 5 times larger than Cluny's: I was just exaggerating a bit to make a point ;)
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Rusvul on June 04, 2013, 07:40:49 PM
My point is, there is nowhere with enough food to feed such a large army.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on June 04, 2013, 07:43:54 PM
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on June 04, 2013, 07:40:49 PM
My point is, there is nowhere with enough food to feed such a large army.
If you could conquer a large distance of plentiful land, like Mossflower, and you had, say, a 1100 soldiers, it would be possible.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Leatho Shellhound on June 04, 2013, 08:57:57 PM
Like I said they would eat the pike!
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Rusvul on June 05, 2013, 01:29:34 AM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on June 04, 2013, 07:43:54 PM
If you could conquer a large distance of plentiful land, like Mossflower, and you had, say, a 1100 soldiers, it would be possible.
You said you had twenty times the amount of creatures as Redwall does, thus making 6,000, not 1,100. Also, how would you conquer such a large span of plentiful land if your beasts were starving? No doubt somebeast would be defending it. And don't say that they're "Just peaceful creatures, not fighters" We've seen all too well, many times over, how fierce peaceful creatures can be.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Kitsune on June 05, 2013, 03:36:42 PM
Hmm, good point.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on June 07, 2013, 05:22:02 PM
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on June 05, 2013, 01:29:34 AM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on June 04, 2013, 07:43:54 PM
If you could conquer a large distance of plentiful land, like Mossflower, and you had, say, a 1100 soldiers, it would be possible.
You said you had twenty times the amount of creatures as Redwall does, thus making 6,000, not 1,100. Also, how would you conquer such a large span of plentiful land if your beasts were starving? No doubt somebeast would be defending it. And don't say that they're "Just peaceful creatures, not fighters" We've seen all too well, many times over, how fierce peaceful creatures can be.
Okay, two points:
1. I might of exaggerating a little about there numbers to make a point :)
2. How do you know how many Redwallers there would be at the time?
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: The Shade on July 01, 2013, 04:16:10 PM
Your like all the warlords....always underetermating the Abbey beasts ;)
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on July 01, 2013, 05:09:35 PM
An' zat undereztimatin' frequently leadz tae failure, az vell az deaz tae boot.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Rusvul on July 04, 2013, 01:47:02 PM
Quote1. I might of exaggerating a little about there numbers to make a point
When trying to debate a point, exxagerating discredits you. If those weren't his numbers, what would you estimate them to be?

Quote2. How do you know how many Redwallers there would be at the time?
Their numbers are fairly static. A few dibbuns are born, a few orphans adopted, a few adults die. It's a wonder their numbers don't rise, actually. And, about how do I know, well, I don't. Nobody does. However, it is clear that they have enough to defend themselves, while still so few that they all know each other.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: rachel25 on July 17, 2013, 02:08:20 PM
What are we talking about?
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on July 18, 2013, 09:43:02 PM
Onionz!
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on November 09, 2013, 01:53:01 AM
Revive!
So, does anybody else have an opinion on the matter?
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: The Shade on November 09, 2013, 07:56:02 PM
Castle Marl. Even though it got taken down fairly quickly.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on November 09, 2013, 08:26:28 PM
Quote from: The Shade on November 09, 2013, 07:56:02 PM
Castle Marl. Even though it got taken down fairly quickly.
So why did you vote for it?
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Leatho Shellhound on November 13, 2013, 12:06:17 AM
Castle Floret,  :D
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Shadefur nightblade on November 13, 2013, 01:11:33 PM
Redwaaaaaaaaallll!!!! :)
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: The Shade on November 13, 2013, 03:43:29 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 09, 2013, 08:26:28 PM
Quote from: The Shade on November 09, 2013, 07:56:02 PM
Castle Marl. Even though it got taken down fairly quickly.
So why did you vote for it?
Well, inside it isn't really well defended, but outside, well, that's a different story. Nice huge lake, full of pike, than there's the cliffs, and the magpies...
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on November 13, 2013, 03:45:15 PM
Quote from: The Shade on November 13, 2013, 03:43:29 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 09, 2013, 08:26:28 PM
Quote from: The Shade on November 09, 2013, 07:56:02 PM
Castle Marl. Even though it got taken down fairly quickly.
So why did you vote for it?
Well, inside it isn't really well defended, but outside, well, that's a different story. Nice huge lake, full of pike, than there's the cliffs, and the magpies...
Ah, point taken. ;D
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Shadefur nightblade on November 13, 2013, 11:50:07 PM
Redwall stood up to far more attacks than everything except for Salamandastron, and the spirit of Martin the warrior guides them.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Tam and Martin on November 14, 2013, 09:34:09 PM
Quote from: Shadefur nightblade on November 13, 2013, 11:50:07 PM
Redwall stood up to far more attacks than everything except for Salamandastron, and the spirit of Martin the warrior guides them.
I agree there. It also has many allies which could help in case of attack.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on November 15, 2013, 01:19:36 AM
Quote from: Tam and Martin on November 14, 2013, 09:34:09 PM
Quote from: Shadefur nightblade on November 13, 2013, 11:50:07 PM
Redwall stood up to far more attacks than everything except for Salamandastron, and the spirit of Martin the warrior guides them.
I agree there. It also has many allies which could help in case of attack.
I agree completly.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Tam and Martin on November 15, 2013, 01:46:44 AM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 15, 2013, 01:19:36 AM
Quote from: Tam and Martin on November 14, 2013, 09:34:09 PM
Quote from: Shadefur nightblade on November 13, 2013, 11:50:07 PM
Redwall stood up to far more attacks than everything except for Salamandastron, and the spirit of Martin the warrior guides them.
I agree there. It also has many allies which could help in case of attack.
I agree completly.
Did you vote Redwall?
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on November 15, 2013, 01:57:17 AM
Quote from: Tam and Martin on November 15, 2013, 01:46:44 AM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 15, 2013, 01:19:36 AM
Quote from: Tam and Martin on November 14, 2013, 09:34:09 PM
Quote from: Shadefur nightblade on November 13, 2013, 11:50:07 PM
Redwall stood up to far more attacks than everything except for Salamandastron, and the spirit of Martin the warrior guides them.
I agree there. It also has many allies which could help in case of attack.
I agree completly.
Did you vote Redwall?
I actually voted for Castle Floret. Redwall is #3 on my list.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Leatho Shellhound on November 15, 2013, 02:58:27 AM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 15, 2013, 01:57:17 AM
I actually voted for Castle Floret. Redwall is #3 on my list.

YES! Another supporter!
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on November 15, 2013, 03:01:20 AM
Oh, and for the record, Salamandastron is my #2. It can be considred one of Redwall's "many allies" that helps make Redwall  "mostly invinsable".
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: The Shade on November 15, 2013, 01:22:03 PM
Well, if we were counting allies, I definitely woulda chosen Redwall. Solely be itself though, I chose Castle Marl.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on November 16, 2013, 12:07:02 AM
Quote from: The Shade on November 15, 2013, 01:22:03 PM
Well, if we were counting allies, I definitely woulda chosen Redwall. Solely be itself though, I chose Castle Marl.
Castle Marl really came down easy, you know...
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: redwallgurl on November 16, 2013, 12:16:40 AM
Salamndastron!
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on November 16, 2013, 12:22:39 AM
Quote from: redwallgurl on November 16, 2013, 12:16:40 AM
Salamndastron!
Reasons?
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: The Shade on November 16, 2013, 06:08:59 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 16, 2013, 12:07:02 AM
Quote from: The Shade on November 15, 2013, 01:22:03 PM
Well, if we were counting allies, I definitely woulda chosen Redwall. Solely be itself though, I chose Castle Marl.
Castle Marl really came down easy, you know...
But remember, Marlfoxs might be great at disappearing and sneaking around, but how good were they tacticly?  ;)
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Rusvul on November 16, 2013, 10:08:56 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 16, 2013, 12:07:02 AM
Quote from: The Shade on November 15, 2013, 01:22:03 PM
Well, if we were counting allies, I definitely woulda chosen Redwall. Solely be itself though, I chose Castle Marl.
Castle Marl really came down easy, you know...
Only because the woodlanders are ridiculously powerful. And had a hawk on their side.

To those who disagree about the woodlanders being overly powerful:
Castle Marl: In the middle of a secret, massive, inland lake filled with pike, and birds in the air. In the middle of the lake is castle well-defended with archers, and an army of guards.

Redwall: An abbey with walls, in the middle of a forest, with no weapons and no fighters.

Castle Marl attacked once, it fell.
Redwall attacked countless times, still standing.

Point taken?
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on November 16, 2013, 11:58:58 PM
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on November 16, 2013, 10:08:56 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 16, 2013, 12:07:02 AM
Quote from: The Shade on November 15, 2013, 01:22:03 PM
Well, if we were counting allies, I definitely woulda chosen Redwall. Solely be itself though, I chose Castle Marl.
Castle Marl really came down easy, you know...
Only because the woodlanders are ridiculously powerful. And had a hawk on their side.

To those who disagree about the woodlanders being overly powerful:
Castle Marl: In the middle of a secret, massive, inland lake filled with pike, and birds in the air. In the middle of the lake is castle well-defended with archers, and an army of guards.

Redwall: An abbey with walls, in the middle of a forest, with no weapons and no fighters.

Castle Marl attacked once, it fell.
Redwall attacked countless times, still standing.

Point taken?
The only reason that the good guys were able to take down Castle Marl is because they managed to set the slaves there free, and there were ALLOT of slaves.
And Redwall's, er, walls, were really high and thick, making them hard to breach. Also, one of the reasons that Redwall was "invinsable" was because it had ALLOT of allies, including the spirit of Marrin the Warrior guiding them.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Rusvul on November 17, 2013, 02:21:06 AM
Spiritual intervention is unfair. And my point is, the Redwallers shouldn't have been able to free the slaves, at least logically.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on November 17, 2013, 02:37:48 AM
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on November 17, 2013, 02:21:06 AM
And my point is, the Redwallers shouldn't have been able to free the slaves, at least logically.
Why so?
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Rusvul on November 17, 2013, 03:17:29 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 17, 2013, 02:37:48 AM
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on November 17, 2013, 02:21:06 AM
And my point is, the Redwallers shouldn't have been able to free the slaves, at least logically.
Why so?
1. Lake full of pike.
2. Army of evil birds.
3. Army of guards.
4. Lots of archers, who should have been shooting flaming arrows.

How is it that the crew of one hedgehog raft are able to set free so many slaves? The slaves were being guarded by an army of guards! The way that I think the battle should have gone would be more like this:

They sail towards Marl, and their hawky friend leaves to distract the crows. He gets a lot of them, but is eventually struck down by the sheer masses. The remaining half or so of the crows descend upon the ship. About a third of the crew is decimated by the birds, before the final feathers slip below the pike-filled lake. The remaining two-thirds of the crew comes within bow-range of Castle Marl, and several of them are sniped off by the few keen-eyed marksmen in the castle. However, a much larger group of archers are firing flaming arrows- Catching the sails of the ship alight, the fire quickly spreads to other parts of the ship, and the crew doesn't have a way to put it out- The water is full of pike. They can fight it with towels, but it's a lost cause- They have two options: Burn to death, or jump overboard and be eaten by pike.

I'm not sure how they even would have gotten to Castle Marl.

And, they only had any kind of chance because of a bird. Now, if they had more birds, they might have had a much larger chance. But think- Did Redwall stand up to an avian assault? No, an outsider who stumbled in by sheer luck, had to save them. Also, Redwall isn't secret and in a lake full of pike.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: redwallgurl on November 17, 2013, 03:37:17 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 16, 2013, 12:22:39 AM
Quote from: redwallgurl on November 16, 2013, 12:16:40 AM
Salamndastron!
Reasons?
I choose Salamandastron due to a lot of reasons. First of all its feared strong army of hares and of course the ferocious Badger Lord/Lady. Also it has a sustainable amount of water for a couple of years/forever. Salamandastron also has very strong walls and can always be used to the inhabitants advantage.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: willruth on March 19, 2014, 02:38:41 PM
  


 I think the Palace of Ublaz would be the best beacause one monitor is like worth a score of Blue Hordebeasts!


I also think this because it is SO FAR AWAY FROM ANYONE ELSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Russa Nodrey on April 21, 2014, 07:28:33 PM
Let me see....


  • Castle Marl
  • Salamandastron
  • Redwall
  • Teramort (Not sure if I spelled that right.)
  • Castle Floret
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Albrithr on June 09, 2014, 04:55:48 AM
I say Floret.  For one thing, they now know of the existence of the secret tunnels, which would make great points for ambushing attackers and would be relatively easy to seal off.  Also, the drawbridge limits access quite a bit, and they would have to carry quite a bit of debris up the path, fully exposed, in order to cross the moat to attack the gate, which they wouldn't be able to breach with any of the siege weaponry found in any of the books.  That, and they have the high ground.  Both Sun Tzu and Obi-Wan would approve.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Leatho Shellhound on June 14, 2014, 05:04:11 AM
Quote from: Albrithr on June 09, 2014, 04:55:48 AM
I say Floret.  For one thing, they now know of the existence of the secret tunnels, which would make great points for ambushing attackers and would be relatively easy to seal off.  Also, the drawbridge limits access quite a bit, and they would have to carry quite a bit of debris up the path, fully exposed, in order to cross the moat to attack the gate, which they wouldn't be able to breach with any of the siege weaponry found in any of the books.  That, and they have the high ground.  Both Sun Tzu and Obi-Wan would approve.

Thank you! Yes! The only reason why castle Floret was taken was b/c of trickery and hidden tunnles. With out thoughs ways of attack, that castle is very defensible against both vermin or good beasts.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Delthion on August 09, 2014, 04:25:27 AM
Salamadastron, the higher up you retreat the more tightly packed your army becomes, and the less of an advantage (if any) the other armies numbers become.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: The Skarzs on August 09, 2014, 04:37:16 AM
Castle Floret. Not only is there a moat, but a drawbridge, high walls (much higher than any other forts and/or castles), and enough storage for a large army and the means to support it.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Delthion on August 10, 2014, 02:18:25 AM
But moats are easily bridged...And Salamandastron has much stronger and taller walls than any castle.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Rusvul on August 10, 2014, 06:06:51 PM
It's rather difficult to bridge a moat when there's people hurling rocks, arrows, and boiling oil at your head, not to mention setting fire to anything wooden. One of the most common strategies for bridging a moat was throwing rocks into it- That sounds tedious and slow, no? But it was the best some armies could do.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Delthion on August 10, 2014, 06:31:27 PM
You can easily do that if you can spread the defenders out enough, attack and try to bridge the moat from as many points as possible. And you can use faggots, to fill the moat.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Rusvul on August 10, 2014, 09:25:26 PM
Still, that's more time for the people to pour boiling oil on you.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: The Skarzs on August 11, 2014, 01:27:17 AM
Every egg can be cracked, and every shell: broken.

It doesn't matter how well a castle can be defended, it will eventually fall no matter what under enough enemies assailing it and attempts to gain entrance.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Delthion on August 11, 2014, 01:39:27 AM
Couldn't have said it better myself!
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Tim Churchmouse on August 30, 2014, 08:57:50 AM
I think that it would be Castle Marl. Reasons:
Salamandastron: very few exits- easy to become trapped
Palace of Ublaz: Too small
Fort Bladegirt: Wooden; burned down, water seeps in from below
Redwall Abbey: Too compact & small, no exit space, untrained fighters
Castle Marl: surrounded by water, very few ways for enemy to get in
Castle Floret: Good, but not as good as Castle Marl.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Delthion on August 30, 2014, 02:52:36 PM
But Salamandastron's very few exits also work to their advantage, and they know of that exit that takes you past the crabs now, and they have a constant water supply.
Title: Re: Castles and sorts
Post by: Albrithr on August 31, 2014, 05:07:02 AM
Quote from: The Skarzs on August 11, 2014, 01:27:17 AM
Every egg can be cracked, and every shell: broken.

It doesn't matter how well a castle can be defended, it will eventually fall no matter what under enough enemies assailing it and attempts to gain entrance.
I agree, no fortress can withstand treachery.  That's how Cluny took Redwall, and how Floret fell.