Does it seem like vermin might have been tougher in Redwall to anyone else? Apparently it's a big deal that Cluny killed a ferret, but in the other books no one would have cared.
That is a good point.
I think it might have been so. As several people have pointed out, the first Redwall book was a start of a long series, thus BJ was figuring everything out that he wanted to include or exclude. That's why we see mentions of the mice having farm animals, and other various flaws. Maybe Brian was planning on having a special ranking for the vermin, ie. maybe rats would be the lowest order and then ferrets, stoats, weasels, and maybe a wearet or a wolverine at the top, I don't know. Kind of like a food chain for animal rankings. Curious thought though. I think as he got more developed in the books, Brian decided to just have them all equal in rank instead of having different leveled classes.
I wise the Vermin were tougher one of the problems I had with these books is that the most villains were pretty much all the same just change the species.
I think there was a wide range in villains: from the ones that could effortlessly snap your back to the ones who are so weak they end up as comic relief (or good guys).
So good guys are weak? ;D
Yes.
Or Sues.
Quote from: Ashleg on September 03, 2017, 07:51:31 AM
I think there was a wide range in villains: from the ones that could effortlessly snap your back to the ones who are so weak they end up as comic relief (or good guys).
I wouldn't comic relief ones as villains. I just wise they were a lot better fighters at times
Personally, I think a vermin lord is strong in the beginning of the book, but eventually weakens and it becomes a 50/50 battle against the hero, (like in Pearls of Lutra and The Long Patrol.) Other times, it seems he/she is too strong and external aid and wit is needed, (like in Rakkety Tam, Mattimeo and Redwall.)
They usually lose their minds by the end of the book--and I don't blame them.
Notice how sometimes if a vermin is brave (I'm talking mostly about the leaders) they're usually killed off or just mention
Or it's made a big deal of and they turn out not to be brave at all.
Quote from: Sanddunes on September 23, 2017, 03:36:14 PM
Notice how sometimes if a vermin is brave (I'm talking mostly about the leaders) they're usually killed off or just mention
Yep. No vermin who is brave really ends up having that bravery come to use.
Quote from: Ashleg on September 23, 2017, 03:42:51 PM
Or it's made a big deal of and they turn out not to be brave at all.
it's rare but they are brave vermin like Barranca who are not in the book very long
Quote from: The Skarzs on September 23, 2017, 04:52:24 PM
Quote from: Sanddunes on September 23, 2017, 03:36:14 PM
Notice how sometimes if a vermin is brave (I'm talking mostly about the leaders) they're usually killed off or just mention
Yep. No vermin who is brave really ends up having that bravery come to use.
kind of explains why they're not plus they wouldn't have their fiends helping them unlike the woodlanders who are also far better fighters
@Sanddunes: You know, you bring up a good point there. If a vermin does happen to be brave, it is very likely they will be the only brave one in their group. That means that any brave action they do would have to be done by themselves, because their comrades are presumably cowardly. This means that any brave action would be at an automatic disadvantage, because it instantly loses any power of numbers vermin might have.
Vermin are kind of the personification of your grunts in a gang in some city, or people in team rocket. They try hard, but they're cowards and evil and, sometimes, not that strong.
It's also worth noting that by the end of the series, maybe the villains weren't necessarily getting weaker as much as the heroes got stronger?
Heroes rarely seem to get stronger unless the point of said character's arc is (blank becomes a warrior). Usually the villains can be seen deteriorating by the end of the book, killing eachother and going insane with paranoia.
Fair point, fair point. I guess that's part of the villain's character arc, though.
Quote from: Ashleg on October 03, 2017, 12:48:18 AM
Heroes rarely seem to get stronger unless the point of said character's arc is (blank becomes a warrior). Usually the villains can be seen deteriorating by the end of the book, killing eachother and going insane with paranoia.
Does this mean Redwall has some kind of spell that attracts villains but also makes them insane?
Ooh. Fascinating.
And also horrific.
Abbess Germaine did it...
I was going to say Abbess Geminaya. She was one strange old mouse.
Oh, was that her name?
I was thinking it was Martin, after all, he is the one who haunts everybeast...
Quote from: Wylder Treejumper on October 06, 2017, 02:31:25 AM
I was going to say Abbess Geminaya. She was one strange old mouse.
Geminya was never an abbess. She was just Sister Geminya.
Who is the Abbess that founded Redwall?
Germaine.
So I WAS right.
Quote from: Jetthebinturong on October 06, 2017, 02:53:01 AM
Quote from: Wylder Treejumper on October 06, 2017, 02:31:25 AM
I was going to say Abbess Geminaya. She was one strange old mouse.
Geminya was never an abbess. She was just Sister Geminya.
I'm not the only one who remembers things wrong!
*Victory dance.*
I would agree that Redwall has a certain appeal to villains. It's a big, strong fortress full of lots of good food and potential slaves. It's never really been successfully breached before and that also lends a glory to the capturing of it.
But then, most of that also applies to Salamandastron. But then Salamandastron is also inhabited by fighters, sooo...
Eh, I should cease my ramblings. ;D
Yeah, and when have we ever heard about Salamandastron food, eh?
Take Redwall. They've got the stuff.