Redwall Abbey

Brian Jacques' Works (Spoilers) => History, Legends and Myths => Topic started by: 321tumbler on November 27, 2012, 03:29:51 PM

Title: Redwall Legends
Post by: 321tumbler on November 27, 2012, 03:29:51 PM
How many Redwall legends do you think are "true"?
Also how many accounts by the "Teller of Tales"(Some of the later books) are true?
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: Lutra on November 29, 2012, 11:56:19 AM
I don't understand the question.  In the Redwall universe, why would they not be true?
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: 321tumbler on December 06, 2012, 12:45:31 PM
Quote from: Lutra on November 29, 2012, 11:56:19 AM
I don't understand the question.  In the Redwall universe, why would they not be true?
Since the later books are "written" by the Teller of Tales, maybe the Telller of Tales made the stories.
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: W0NWILL on December 06, 2012, 04:02:20 PM
In Doomwyte it revealed that Umfry was the Teller of Tales and the Weaver of Dreams, so that covers for all excepted the Sable Queen and the Rouge Crew. Maybe when he died he passed the title onto somebeast else, and they, and their successor wrote down the tales of the Rouge Crew and the Sable Queen.
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: Lutra on December 07, 2012, 12:48:39 PM
I suspect they're real...I don't think its in Abbeybeasts' nature to spin false stories. ;)
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: Dreamer on December 07, 2012, 05:37:04 PM
Yeah. the Redwall critters dont seem to be exaggeraters. so I'd say they are true.
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: 321tumbler on December 12, 2012, 02:09:53 PM
Quote from: Lutra on December 07, 2012, 12:48:39 PM
I suspect they're real...I don't think its in Abbeybeasts' nature to spin false stories. ;)
That's probally right. (Though they might be a teeny bit off with details.)
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: Skyblade on December 13, 2012, 07:54:22 PM
I'm guessing they're true. And welcome to the forums, though it is late ^^
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: Kitsune on December 13, 2012, 09:37:22 PM
I don't think that Redwallers would tell a lie... except tales told to Dibbuns or the 'come inside or the big bad monster is gonna get you!' kind of things ;D
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: MatthiasMan on December 14, 2012, 12:57:06 AM
Most Redwall Legends are true. It's just those ones that the elders or badgermum say," Watch how many strawberries you eat, or you might explode like Henry Kowlaski." Stuff like that.
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: Shadowed One on June 21, 2013, 12:31:14 AM
True!
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: Captain Tammo on June 21, 2013, 04:44:31 AM
I always thought of Brian Jacques himself as the teller of tales and weaver of dreams. I think it adds some magic to things! Brian, telling us a story.
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: The Shade on July 14, 2013, 11:18:04 AM
Quote from: W0NWILL on December 06, 2012, 04:02:20 PM
In Doomwyte it revealed that Umfry was the Teller of Tales and the Weaver of Dreams, so that covers for all excepted the Sable Queen and the Rouge Crew. Maybe when he died he passed the title onto somebeast else, and they, and their successor wrote down the tales of the Rouge Crew and the Sable Queen.

Which Umfry?? I'm sure he was the hedgehog in The Rogue Crew...
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: Lepidolite Mica on October 11, 2015, 06:15:42 AM
Quote from: PluggFiretail on December 13, 2012, 09:37:22 PM
I don't think that Redwallers would tell a lie... except tales told to Dibbuns or the 'come inside or the big bad monster is gonna get you!' kind of things ;D
Well, that's what I'm unsure about. Bragoon and Sarobando's death, though arguably canon, wasn't observed by anyone from the Abbey, since they held the line while Horty, Fenna, and Springald escaped. After that, there's very little reason for anybeast to have returned, so how could anyone have known their last moments?
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: Lady Ashenwyte on October 11, 2015, 03:19:59 PM
First of all, welcome to the forums! You may want to post in the Introduction topic to be greeted by our friendly community!

My idea is that a passing bird saw the battle, travelled to Redwall, and said it to the Recorder.
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: The Skarzs on October 11, 2015, 03:22:32 PM
Or it may just be a guess or BJ just making a story. :P
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: Izeroth on October 12, 2015, 04:25:21 AM
Quote from: Lepidolite Mica on October 11, 2015, 06:15:42 AM
Quote from: PluggFiretail on December 13, 2012, 09:37:22 PM
I don't think that Redwallers would tell a lie... except tales told to Dibbuns or the 'come inside or the big bad monster is gonna get you!' kind of things ;D
Well, that's what I'm unsure about. Bragoon and Sarobando's death, though arguably canon, wasn't observed by anyone from the Abbey, since they held the line while Horty, Fenna, and Springald escaped. After that, there's very little reason for anybeast to have returned, so how could anyone have known their last moments?

I've always thought that Redwall recorders would have 'read between the lines' and inserted situations or phrases they thought might have plausibly happened. It's highly unlikely, for instance, that a recorder would know exactly what a vermin leader was saying or doing in private company, and yet many such scenes appear in the books.
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: The Skarzs on October 12, 2015, 04:34:32 AM
Which is why I think it's more of BJ writing a story, and not them being part of it. :P
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: SoranMBane on October 12, 2015, 10:04:27 AM
My assumption has always been that us real-life readers are simply getting a more complete version of the story that's actually being told in-universe. So, those scenes of events that the recorder/storyteller couldn't possibly know about probably aren't actually in the version of the story they're telling. I have to make this assumption, because the only other alternative would be that the character telling the story is a big fat liar (which would be terrible).
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: Hickory on October 12, 2015, 12:25:31 PM
Sometimes such things can be excused, for instance, in Rakkety Tam or the Taggerung, because the story is being cobbled together from multiple sources. In that case a hole in information and a bit of storywriting would be emplyed by the recorder who's putting together the story.
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: SoranMBane on October 12, 2015, 07:40:49 PM
Quote from: Sagetip, the hare on October 12, 2015, 12:25:31 PM
Sometimes such things can be excused, for instance, in Rakkety Tam or the Taggerung, because the story is being cobbled together from multiple sources. In that case a hole in information and a bit of storywriting would be emplyed by the recorder who's putting together the story.
Not really sure I'd call that excusable. A historian who genuinely cares about preserving history would only record what they can be sure of, and acknowledge it when there are things that they just don't know; anything else would be lying. Of course, there are plenty of real-life examples of historical chroniclers just making stuff up where they didn't know all the facts, but those chroniclers generally did that to make events seem more dramatic than they really were, or to idealize or demonize the various sides involved in a conflict. But Redwallers are supposed to be the good guys, and good people (or creatures) wouldn't misrepresent the truth like that for the sake of drama. Even in the cases where it's just a creature telling their story to an audience from memory, it would still be rather morally iffy for them to be talking about events that neither they nor anyone they know actually witnessed. Also, if those unknowable events really are part of  the stories that the in-universe chroniclers are telling, then that would lend a lot of credence to the theory that the Redwall stories are all just lies cooked up by "racist" Redwallers to unfairly demonize the vermin. I don't want that, because that theory is ludicrous and unpleasant.
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: Jukka the Sling on October 18, 2015, 03:43:40 AM
Maybe the parts with the vermin talking together were recorded fairly accurately by a random hordebeast, and lifetimes later, a random creature found the records and combined them with ones from the Abbey, making a complete-ish history.  I think that would make a fascinating (to me, at least) fanfic.
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: asmodeus on August 16, 2017, 02:04:44 AM
Most vermin don't know how to read or write, so could there have been a spy?
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: Ashleg on August 16, 2017, 03:00:35 AM
The Redwallers are telling a true (but general) story, and we as the readers are taken back into the time it is happening and not hearing what the storyteller says but what is being said during the event itself.
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: KoudoawaiaVortex on August 16, 2017, 03:48:56 PM
@The Shade: Uggo was the name of the main hedgehog character in Rogue Crew
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: MeadowR on August 17, 2017, 06:44:05 PM
What Ashleg just said.
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: Ashleg on August 17, 2017, 08:01:30 PM
W00T!
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: The Skarzs on August 20, 2017, 12:56:01 AM
What do you guys in general think about the stories supposedly being written or recorded? Personally, while it adds a certain charm to the story in that we know it will be fine from the get-go, I think it is a bit too "perfect".
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: Ashleg on September 03, 2017, 08:29:57 PM
Well, I think what I said here.
Quote from: Ashleg on August 16, 2017, 03:00:35 AM
The Redwallers are telling a true (but general) story, and we as the readers are taken back into the time it is happening and not hearing what the storyteller says but what is being said during the event itself.
Title: Re: Redwall Legends
Post by: Sebias of Redwall on February 28, 2019, 09:43:24 PM
Quote from: Ashleg on September 03, 2017, 08:29:57 PM
Well, I think what I said here.
Yeah i agree with that too.  :)