I've just come across a pretty nifty article that argues why the Redwall books could easily become the next "cinematic universe" like Marvel etc. Read it through here (http://www.slashfilm.com/redwall-movie-series/).
While I am one of many people who would love to see the books turned into some sort of film, I do have my doubts. Namely, what tone the movies would take. The TV series took the approach of pitching the show to young children; an approach that in my opinion also held back the Guardians of Ga'Hoole movie back from its true potential. Ideally (for me, at least), the movie(s) would have the same sort of tone as the later Harry Potter movies, but that brings up another issue: it would be difficult convincing a bunch of teenagers to go and see a movie about talking animals. I mean, the books did fine in achieving that, but Hollywood is another matter. As much as the Redwall books have been commercially successful and deeply adored by its fan base, I'm not sure it would be enough to convince any major studios to invest the money to make the sort of photo-realistic depiction this article suggests. I think the success of the upcoming Watership Down Netflix series could indicate whether Redwall could be viable. (The more I think of it, the more I think a Redwall Netflix series would be amazing.)
But still, it's always nice to fantasise over. What would you like from a potential Redwall film franchise? What might be holding major companies back? What books would best lend themselves to a film adaptation? Would you even go see it?
I love the idea of a Redwall movie, and with the continuing success of animal fiction (Zootopia, Armello, all the series you mentioned), I think it actually would have more than a snowball's chance.
The one issue I think it would have is that it would be marketed as a kids movie, but it would be too dark for a kid's movie, which would upset parents, and from there it would flop. I think a TV or Netflix series would have a better chance at success.
It would be awesome for it to be Chronological too if they did a series. By the time they got to the Redwall book itself then it might have enough of a following that they would t have to worry about marketing to kids and they could make a feature length movie.
I'd die to be on a team making it a series or a movie though.
Quote from: NovaNocturne on July 16, 2017, 03:53:04 PM
I'd die to be on a team making it a series or a movie though.
That said, I think unless it was written and animated by true Redwall fans or someone in Brian Jaques' family (or, heck...Don Bluth) it would flop. Hollywood
loves mixing things up and butchering them.
Redwall would become some sort of fantasy mouse love story with lots of singing, I feel it.
Hollywood isn't the way to go with the Redwall series! (As it really isn't with a lot of things.) They would miss the point of it, mismarket it, and all sorts. A smaller, independent or BBC/Netflix type thing seems more the way to go for such things these days. As an example, I'm looking forward to the BBC series of 'His Dark Materials'; it needs the episodic formula. The Hollywood attempt at the first book, plus all the controversy and trying to appease people, was a mess.
My concern with the Redwall series as a cinematic series is the tone that is taken with vermin. For the audience it was aimed to, that black and white distinction is acceptable. However, in a visual rendition, it may cause a bad taste.
I don't support making it into a movie, or any mainstream kind of video. Brian isn't around to supervise it and give his vision.
More graphic novels, however...HECK YEAH.
A lot of good ideas here, but I'd like to toss in one more. How about doing the series as a western-style anime, a LA The Last Airbender? It strikes a balance between childish and serious, provides a good platform for both black-and-white and gray morality moments, and gives a lot of leeway for varied storytelling opportunities. I think it could work.
If the vermin are cast in the way orcs are in LOTR it might work, yeah.
If Redwall was turned into a big production, I would want the focus to be staying true to the story and having a good score moreso than making a visually pleasing film. There are lots and lots of films with great visuals but a story that's been put through all kinds of hoops to fit what looks cool (ex: Valerian, Mars needs moms, suckerpunch, spy kids, etc...).
On the other hand, a film like Watership down - even with its 70's animation - is highly regarded today because of the story and its music score. I think if you want a successful film, it's gotta have the focus in the right areas and visuals isn't it unless you have a $100 million budget
(There are a lot of reasons Valerian didn't take off well in America.)
Accuracy to the books would be nice to see, though that might not be entirely possible- see some Chronicals of Narnia enactments. And while visuals may not be a necessary part to it, with the capabilities we have pretty easily accessible nowadays I think having some animation at least along the quality of, say, the new Avengers animated series (with some blood, mm, yeah, lots of blood) would be good. Anything 3d on a tight budget just looks trash.
I really would love to see a highly realistic cgi film version of these books. It is nice we have the TV series but I honestly don't care for the style used in it. That style makes some of the animals not look like the species they're supposed to and I think a Redwall film series would have excellent potential.
Good points, Koudo, and welcome to the forum!
Thank you on both accounts^^
Quote from: The Skarezs on August 07, 2017, 12:30:24 AM
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It would be amazing if they made it into a series of movies but I don't know if redwall is known enough to the general public.
Indeed. It may end up being like Valerian because of lack of exposure. Or it will expose the series and gain support and interest.
Yeah as others have said it would be crucial for the movie or series to strike the right balance between childish vs. an older audience. If the movie or series stayed true to the books it would be way to violent to ever be approved as a kid's movie. It would probably be a 14A or thereabouts... Whereas at the same time not to many teens or young adults will get into a movie about talking animals...
Going off-topic but another series that I think would have made a great movie or even live acted Netflix series would have been Cybersix- and I can definitely see how it could appeal to a much older audience, especially by staying true to the comic vs. the animated series... (The only reason I brought it up is because it came out in 1999 too same as the Redwall series did and I liked watching it as a kid- I kind of remember the 2 together....)
I'd be perfectly fine with the movie not being for kids. They aren't kids' books even though they're in the Children's sections an awful lot. Fuzzy animals seems to equal children's books no matter how violent it is inside. =p
I think an animated series would be great, if it was done well. I wasn't a fan of the animation of the old show, it was a bit too "cartoonish" compared to the great illustrations by Troy Howell (or even the cute stuff by Christopher Denise). If they somehow translated those styles, probably Howells, into CG, I think it'd be amazing. It'd be great in revitalizing the Redwall community, too.
I kind of like the western style anime idea. I think Redwall would work better with a hand animated/pen on paper look, as opposed to "realistic CGI." They just have to get the look and atmosphere right.
Yes, that does sound like a viable option.
IT SHOULD LOOK LIKE THIS.
Spoiler
(http://basementrejects.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/secret-of-nimh-1982-justin-vs-jenner-swordfight-rats-peter-strauss-paul-shenar-review.jpg)
I wanted more blood than that.
There's blood in the movie. But not in that picture, because nobeast got hurt yet.
Go watch it if you don't believe me.
I could go with a Don Bluth style movie^^
On the topic of children and adult audiences and violence, its not hard to keep violence but make it children friendly, *Gabool swings his sword in the direction of Bludrigg's neck, the screen goes black and you hear a faint splat and gurgling noise* then you never actually see Bludrigg or his severed head again.
If they can show Mufasa's dead body on screen, they can get away with what Al said.
I agree and Don Bluth movies were really dark but I watched them when I was preschool age.
Don Bluth movies are my JAM.
They were all made way before my time, but I've been watching them since I was, I think, three or four.
Oh yeah they're awesome and that's around the age I was when they were coming out in theaters^^
Don Bluth style films or a Netflix series are definitely ideas I'd support for Redwall. Furthermore, considering I used to be on a rather active forum full of 20-somethings who loved films about talking animals, and that the most active forum I've ever seen is inhabited mostly by adults and teens and is about My Little Pony, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have trouble getting the attention of older audiences. Plenty of people who aren't kids like talking animal stories/films.
Yeah, I don't think the animal aspect would turn many people off, except for grumpy old people without much imagination. Redwall isn't really "cutesy" animal storytelling; the different species and their cultures serve a purpose in the story beyond just being cute for kids. Plus, the stories, legends, setting and atmosphere are strong enough to draw in people initially skeptical about the anthropormorphism anyway I think. And I would really hope the art of the series would draw people in too. If they got good enough artists working on the series, that would draw in a crowd too.
I like the idea of a TV series, but I'd like to have at least one big theatrical release too. There's just something about the magic of a movie theater.
Quote from: KoudoawaiaVortex on August 15, 2017, 04:55:43 PM
I could go with a Don Bluth style movie^^
It could work more like that, I suppose, as long as the animals look more like the animals they're meant to be! That one rat in NIMH looks more like a weasel.
Nicodemus looks nothing like a weasel...
Don't get me started on those awful character designs in the ACTUAL Redwall cartoon.
^ Not Nicodemus. I think he's the one that's in the image. The one that gets a cringey crush on Mrs Brisby. Justin? (Due a re-watch!)
I completely agree on the designs in the Redwall cartoon. Rather put me off pursuing more of the cartoon for a time... Actually, I still haven't watched more than three episodes. ;D Really must get watching it.
His colors, maybe. But with a face like so I would not doubt he was a rat.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-GE3w07bkxp4/UyHc9U46iNI/AAAAAAAACcE/YrkUbPNvi4c/s1600/PUHRL37M90.png)
(There are some rats that have more enlongated bodies, so that can be cut out, too.)
Maybe it's just a you thing...
TELEVISION BADRANG on the other paw, now THAT needs help.
He ain't even recognizable as a stoat.
It seems like nobody likes the Redwall cartoon that much, which is surprising. I don't think I've ever talked to anyone who was a genuine fan of it. I only watched a few episodes myself, I much preferred my imagination and the artwork from the books.
AGREED!
Quote from: Ashleg on August 17, 2017, 08:07:00 PM
Maybe it's just a you thing...
Maybe just me... and a few people who also watched it at the same time as me. But I am pretty picky about character design and animation choices in general: my course made me all the more critical of such things. :) It's not like it's a problem for me that detracts me from the whole film, though! It is indeed an interesting and intriguing feature.
QuoteTELEVISION BADRANG on the other paw, now THAT needs help.
He ain't even recognizable as a stoat.
Yep! The very first episode I watched was one with Badrang in and I thought: 'Isn't he supposed to be a stoat...?' Silly decisions made there; they really could have made something more of the chance to adapt Redwall...
...Which I'm sure any future adaptation would do better!
:)
I did think Justin looked like Disney's Robin Hood, though. They even have similar movements (but that makes sense, because they were animated by the same people).
Hmm. I'm wary about this. The article made some excellent points, and we all know Redwall is an excellent series. But I wonder if it isn't more likely that any adaptation ruins the series, rather than revitalizes the series. I love Brian Jacques work, and I would hate to have it butchered by Hollywood. The Nelvana series is a good example; I never cared for it, and the character models were, in my opinion, particularly bad. But that series was rather minor; a big production has correspondingly bigger consequences, and is more likely to fail catastrophically. Like the Percy Jackson movie. Or, if you want something really scary, Eragon.
That said, there is sooooooooooooo much potential if someone could do it right. My personal preference would be Disney, but book adaptions aren't Disney Animation Studio's usual fare, so I have doubts that it would happen. If it did, though, I am all in favor of doing a Redwall adaption with Zootopia-style animation. The 3D modeling in that movie is superbly adapted for the task of a Redwall-style world.
It's not gritty enough.
It looks too clean and rounded.
Why is "gritty" a requirement?
I agree with Ashleg. Zootopia proves animal based stories can be done well and be hugely successful, but the style a little too cutesy and modern. The best "cutesy" Redwall art is done by Christopher Denise, but it has a very homey, old fashioned storybook feel to it. Not "gritty" really, but earthy. I really like the idea of a hand animated Redwall Series, it's just a shame that's so difficult and kind of a lost art anymore.
It is true that if it's a miserable adaptation it may sour the appeal of the books for newcomers, but it shouldn't be that hard to make a great series as long as you stick to the spirit and the stories of Brian Jacques and nail the art style, which admittedly may be difficult.
Has anyone seen the new Planet of the Apes movies? I imagine it'd be a lot harder to have human performances transformed into mice, badgers, hares, etc. rather than just apes, but it proves that there are AMAZING things that can be done with CGI animals. What do you think about going that ULTRA realistic route?
Haven't seen it, but I know that lots of films made in that way come out startling and slide right down into uncanny valley.
"Gritty" is a requirement because the atmosphere of the books in itself is not squeaky clean, it's bloody and dark and dangerous--thus the style of the artwork would need to reflect that to get across that good old Redwall feeling that drew fans to it in the first place.
I agree that it needs to be gritty, the gritty nature of the books was something I loved dearly as a kid and is part of what drew me to the series.
That aside, I think an animated series or films is worth a shot in any case. As for it ruining the series rather than revitalizing it... that's the same thing people were saying when Disney announced The Lion Guard "oh it'll ruin the integrity of the original"... er... if a new take on it ends up being bad, it doesn't change the quality or worth of the books. Some people ended up hating TLG, others loved it, but all of the fans of the original movies still loved those films, and plenty of kids will still be introduced to the series through the original films as well. The same can be applied here. An animated adaptation could be bad, but it could also be great. Either way, the books are still as enjoyable as they've always been.
I'm of the opinion that a modern film Redwall adaption would be a disaster, and here's why:
They would try to appeal to a very young audience and tone down all of the violence, i.e. the Redwall Animated Series in the early 2000's. And not only that, no matter which book was adapted a lot of material would end up getting cut unless they made it a 2-hour long movie. Something I highly doubt they would do.
If a movie was adapted, I could see it being similar to what was done with Master and Commander. Like Redwall, it is a series of more than 20 books. For this film, most of the plot was taken from a single book in the series (book #10 out of 21) and the rest used elements from the other stories. What if a Redwall movie did something similar? That is, they just picked one of the books in the series and made a film for that? Not to create a debate about which book would be the best pick, but what if they did The Long Patrol as a single movie entry? If it flops, the whole series isn't ruined and if it's a success then there is still room for more!
It would still be safest to just not make a movie, in the end.
Well yes, that is probably true as well.
Someone mentioned a Netflix series. Does anyone think that would be a better option?
Case in point, Game of thrones. I myself haven't seen the show or read the books, but it has certainly had success with the HBO series. If anyone has experienced this series and can make comparisons for us in regards to the adaptation we would appreciate it!
How about an unofficial fan-made series?
I fear ANY official adaptation would screw it up, but if it's unofficial it can be bad and no one will care.
An unofficial fan adaptation would almost certainly be awful. There's just no budget for it, and then there's all the copyright woes and etc creators would have to deal with as well.
There seems to be so little faith in movie adaptations here, but look at Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings. Pretty universally well loved adaptations. Good adaptations can be done with reverence to the source material. I never much cared for Game of Thrones, but that's a good example to of what was, initially at least, a very faithful and hugely successful adaptation.
Fan adaptations can actually be good.
Have you ever seen the Warriors fandom? They took the books and made them into an anime of sorts.
Also the Percy Jackson webseries by TheVideoBird. Way better than the movies were. Plus Isaac Upton is the perfect Percy.
There's already been an official adaptation of Redwall, though, and it obviously didn't stop the series from retaining a dedicated fanbase. We're here, and that game is being made! The worst that another, modern, adaptation could do would be to make more kids curious about where Redwall originated. Even if it's bad, it'd draw in a bigger audience because youngsters would see the movie or series and regardless of whether or not they like it, some will think "that's based on a book series? I should check those out."
I for one wouldn't want a bigger audience.
You know what happens to big fandoms *shudders*.
Agreed. While I enjoy Redwall and its success as much as the next person, I think having a huge wave of suddenly-appearing half-fans could be damaging.
Certainly.
Communities and fandoms that get too small are just as bad as ones that are too big, though. Both have their problems.
Quote from: Andy on August 25, 2017, 04:51:17 AM
Communities and fandoms that get too small are just as bad as ones that are too big, though. Both have their problems.
I agree. The innocence and glory of the original Redwall Online Community is probably lost forever, but I think it would be fantastic to bring in new fans to the series and rejuvenate interest.
The Warriors fan adaptation seems alright, but I would like to see something much more polished and professional done for Redwall. Like I say, a Netflix series is a good idea and has it's own benefits, but I'd still like to get a theatrical release too. Redwall is so magical it deserves to be seen in theaters. Or am I becoming a minority in believing there's a magic in going to movie theaters?
Nah, I get it too.
The "innocence and glory" of the "original" fandom is all just nostalgia fer you old folks.
This might be considered the "glory" in the opinions of some of us.
And new fans would not bring more "innocence", again, if you have ever seen large fandoms.
I do like movie theatres, but not for Redwall.
A modern film or series would spoil it.
No it wouldn't.
Like, yeah I don't really want a movie adaptation. But a bad adaptation won't take away from the appeal of the original work.
Just because The Mortal Instruments has two terrible adaptations doesn't mean I like it any less. The new Death Note film may not be good, but it's not ruining the original manga and anime; they're still available to read and watch. If the Skulduggery Pleasant movie (which will happen, I still have hope) is terrible, I'll still love the original books.
:P
Seems there is a lot of mixed feeling on it.
So it shouldn't happen. ;D
Quote from: Ashleg on August 26, 2017, 01:26:34 AM
The "innocence and glory" of the "original" fandom is all just nostalgia fer you old folks.
This might be considered the "glory" in the opinions of some of us.
The ROC used to be huge and diverse, with lots of people on lots of sites doing lots of RP, fan fiction, artwork, and discussion, and there were still Redwall books being published so we all had something to look forward to and discuss. Sure, the internet as a whole is a lot more toxic now, but I still think more attention and more fans would do the Redwall community some good.
Hypothetically, what if it turned out to be a perfect adaptation? Are you just worried it'll be bad, or you against the whole idea in the first place?
I think "perfect" in my opinion is different from most peoples'.
And even if it was...mmmnnnngh...I'm still mostly against it.
If it was perfect, this may be hard to understand, but I am quite sure I would like the movie but hate that it exists.
Quote from: Ashleg on August 23, 2017, 10:49:34 PM
How about an unofficial fan-made series?
I fear ANY official adaptation would screw it up, but if it's unofficial it can be bad and no one will care.
This.isn't.legal.
http://redwall.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:LordTBT/Essay:A_Primer_on_Copyright
QuoteI agree. The innocence and glory of the original Redwall Online Community is probably lost forever, but I think it would be fantastic to bring in new fans to the series and rejuvenate interest.
Agreed. There are many fans out there who have left the ROC as they got older, and I'm sure would return, as well as many Redwall fans and casual fans who have never been a part of the ROC who would join. Not to mention, a movie would inspire many to read the books. The TV show certainly did.
QuoteI do like movie theatres, but not for Redwall.
A modern film or series would spoil it.
Movie adaptations only "spoil" something if you let it. I didn't let that horrible Harry Potter 3 movie ruin the book for me. I shrugged it off - because I know the book is better.
I'm confident Redwall will be adapted to the big screen. Animated movies nowadays don't tell stories anything like Redwall, which makes it perfect for Hollywood.
So by your definition fan-art isn't legal? Then why do we have that section?
That Warriors thing was non-profit, and no doubt it would be if it was done with Redwall.
What makes you "confident" it will be? If it isn't clear, Redwall is not hugely popular. Movies nowadays aren't in it for plot and whatever, they're in it for money.
If it doesn't seem like it will earn a quick buck it won't get greenlit.
That's why we have a million "Land Before Time" sequels and cheaply made garbage like "The Emoji Movie" instead of anything with actually worthwhile stories.
Of course, anything Disney makes will be good (to an extent) and profitable. But Redwall isn't Disney material. It's too dark.
I don't know anything about the old online fandom, since I wasn't a part of it, but I know the current online community feels horribly exclusive, and is really good at making people who are different or newish feel really uncomfortable and misplaced. A bit of a wider audience would help alleviate this problem. And because Redwall isn't super popular, modern film adaptations would likely not bring enough of an influx to make the community or fandom "big."
It's me, isn't it. Har har.
Quote from: Ashleg on August 27, 2017, 01:40:07 AM
So by your definition fan-art isn't legal? Then why do we have that section?
That Warriors thing was non-profit, and no doubt it would be if it was done with Redwall.
What makes you "confident" it will be? If it isn't clear, Redwall is not hugely popular. Movies nowadays aren't in it for plot and whatever, they're in it for money.
If it doesn't seem like it will earn a quick buck it won't get greenlit.
1. Fan artwork and fan fiction fall into a legal gray area of sorts. Certainly, copyright holders could make demands here, most choose not too. And in regards to Redwall, the copyright holder is more than familiar with the fact that it's a part of the community, and is OK with it. In fact, one fan artist even became a Redwall illustrator - Mr. Rubin - which should tell you all you need to know.
2. What makes me confident? It's a great story? The many attempts to make it happen indicate to me that some day it will happen. It's also a franchise with many stories, which means it's possible to do sequels/prequels.
QuoteI don't know anything about the old online fandom, since I wasn't a part of it, but I know the current online community feels horribly exclusive, and is really good at making people who are different or newish feel really uncomfortable and misplaced. A bit of a wider audience would help alleviate this problem. And because Redwall isn't super popular, modern film adaptations would likely not bring enough of an influx to make the community or fandom "big."
You may find this helpful:
http://redwall.wikia.com/wiki/Redwall_Online_Community
Can you explain more about feeling "really uncomfortable and misplaced"? What happened?
Redwall may not feel "super popular" - but that's because there aren't books being published. There's a ton of interest in The Warrior Reborn, which comes out next month. Something doesn't have to be a current pop culture phenom to be successful at the box office. If the right team is in place, movie magic happens.
How many of these books were you familiar with before they received film adaptations?
http://www.elle.com/culture/books/g29305/movies-based-on-books-2017/
Quote from: LordTBT on August 27, 2017, 10:53:45 PM
You may find this helpful:
http://redwall.wikia.com/wiki/Redwall_Online_Community (http://redwall.wikia.com/wiki/Redwall_Online_Community)
So basically like every online fandom ever. The supposed "good old days" everyone who was active in a fandom in the early 2000s reminisce about.
QuoteCan you explain more about feeling "really uncomfortable and misplaced"? What happened?
Nothing happened. It's just the community is very small and extremely tight-knit. And from what I've observed, a lot of the people in the community don't seem too keen on that changing at all. People seem cold and distant towards those who aren't already a part of the fold, while seeming very warm and friendly to established members. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone I've seen, nor do I think it's deliberate or that it says anything bad about the people here, it just lacks the welcoming air that one would expect from a Redwall fandom. But maybe that's more because I make people uncomfortable than the community itself.
QuoteRedwall may not feel "super popular" - but that's because there aren't books being published. There's a ton of interest in The Warrior Reborn, which comes out next month. Something doesn't have to be a current pop culture phenom to be successful at the box office. If the right team is in place, movie magic happens.
How many of these books were you familiar with before they received film adaptations?
http://www.elle.com/culture/books/g29305/movies-based-on-books-2017/ (http://www.elle.com/culture/books/g29305/movies-based-on-books-2017/)
Only about 4 of them. But that's not really the point, is it? I won't see most of them, and the ones I do, I most likely won't look for online fandoms to join. Those movies having any success won't necessarily make a large number of people join online communities for them.
I'm not saying Redwall definitely needs a film or whatever. Maybe The Warrior Reborn will help enough without the series having to get widespread attention.
@Andy Speaking of the "good old days" of the ROC of the 90s and early 2000s- they really were. Its not nostalgia for a bygone better past- if you look at the basic stats/facts the ROC was far more active then. You had several large sites with a membership base of over 1000 active members as well as a multitude of smaller sites. Presently I only know of 2 active Redwall fandom sites- this one and the Redwall wiki. I am not sure how active the Redwall wiki is, as I rarely go there, but this forum is well "marginally active"- really only an outpost. So yeah the ROC really is only a shadow of its former self....
As for it not being welcoming- hmm the people on this site, as well as the whole site is the friendliest forum I've ever seen or been a member of. I'm not exactly sure how do you feel not welcomed? Has anyone been rude to you or ??
I'm not sure derailing this thread is the right place to talk about the unwelcoming feeling I've picked up on. The short answer is no, no one's been rude to me directly. If that's not good enough, we can talk about it in another thread or PMs I think.
I'll let this topic get back to its point.
Shame shame for the 90's and early 2000's as I was either nonexistent or an infant during that. ::)
Another active Redwall forum is "Redwall Survivor", and on the forum FeralFront there are several Redwall roleplayers, me included.
DeciantArt also has a stable and growing Redwall community.
Quote from: Andy on August 27, 2017, 11:57:20 PM
So basically like every online fandom ever. The supposed "good old days" everyone who was active in a fandom in the early 2000s reminisce about.
It was before the early 2000s mainly. And Grond mentioned it too. The internet was a different place. And it was in the midst of books being published, also a different time.
Quote
Only about 4 of them. But that's not really the point, is it? I won't see most of them, and the ones I do, I most likely won't look for online fandoms to join. Those movies having any success won't necessarily make a large number of people join online communities for them.
I don't think that's the right attitude at all.
QuotePresently I only know of 2 active Redwall fandom sites- this one and the Redwall wiki. I am not sure how active the Redwall wiki is, as I rarely go there
We've had new fan artwork and/or fan fiction submitted just about every week for over a decade. Of course, there were more people around when there were new books. I'm expecting a surge once again after RWB is released next month. We'll have many articles that need writing, new images for submitting, etc. Everyone is invited to come assist with that effort.
Quote from: LordTBT on August 28, 2017, 04:14:05 AM
I don't think that's the right attitude at all.
Why not? It's simply an observation. Most people are too busy with their lives for many, if any, online fandoms. I personally don't have the time or energy for it and most people probably have more responsibilities than I do. I'm the only person I know irl who's involved in any online fandoms, and joining more communities than I'm already in wouldn't be feasible at all. People are busy, and have limited energies to expend on things—that's the way it is and always has been.
Some people will have the time and energy to join new fandoms, and those people will do so. Most people will simply go, "You know what? That was a good movie. I'll watch it again some day." Then they'll move on with their lives. It's mostly teenagers who jump into new fandoms, and that's because they have the time and energy and means for it. That's what the majority of new fans brought in by The Warrior Reborn, or if it ever happened, a new film, would be.
Quote from: Andy on August 28, 2017, 05:01:10 AM
Why not? It's simply an observation. Most people are too busy with their lives for many, if any, online fandoms. I personally don't have the time or energy for it and most people probably have more responsibilities than I do. I'm the only person I know irl who's involved in any online fandoms, and joining more communities than I'm already in wouldn't be feasible at all. People are busy, and have limited energies to expend on things—that's the way it is and always has been.
Some people will have the time and energy to join new fandoms, and those people will do so. Most people will simply go, "You know what? That was a good movie. I'll watch it again some day." Then they'll move on with their lives. It's mostly teenagers who jump into new fandoms, and that's because they have the time and energy and means for it. That's what the majority of new fans brought in by The Warrior Reborn, or if it ever happened, a new film, would be.
While you personally may not have the time or energy, that's fine. But you don't speak for "most people," and life has informed me that the phrase "too busy" is nothing but an excuse. You're projecting your own lack of time, energy, and interest onto "most people." Anyone who wants to do something makes time for it.
@LordTBT: I can't disagree with your concluding sentence, but that being the case perhaps a spoonful of sugar would be helpful in making the medicine go down here. ;)
I haven't done a statistical analysis of our members, nor had a deep involvement with the Redwall online community prior to 2011, but the experience I do possess, as well as my intuition, suggest that practically speaking Andy is not far off about the majority of online members being in the teenage age range (I might add "pre-teen" to that statement as well). Historically most of our RAF members here have been around that age, and the limited study I've done of other once-prominent Redwall community sites (such as the Redwall.net forum and the Long Patrol Club) seems indicative of a similar userbase.
That said, the audience that is being marketed to in every case
is teenagers, so it's not logical to guess that a majority of the audience are not the type to jump into new fandoms. It's impossible to tell what exactly the outcome of a Redwall film would be on the community, but by the sheer virtue of the advertising and publicity that would accompany such an endeavor, it's a reasonable guess that it would not be a non-event. There are several Chronicles of Narnia forums, for instance, that seemed to have sprung up and peaked after the films were made, in spite of the books being around for half a century before that time period. Massive exposure does result in new fans. (If I had a million dollar advertising budget I bet I could get a few new members on here
without having a film.) My expectations for the game are more subdued, for reasons of scale, but if it's well-done and successful enough to inspire more games in the series, there's no reason to suppose that it wouldn't shoot some extra life into things for a while.
Andy's right though. For every, let's say, twenty people who play WR who weren't already fans, only one will care enough to look into the rest of the series. For every fifty people who do that, only five or so will be interested enough to get into the fandom. There won't be any great surge in popularity just because there's a video game out now. Most people do not get obsessive over fiction. To the world at large, fandoms look like they're full of crazy people.
Andy's also right that we're an incredibly exclusive community. We all know this, some of us have just chosen to forget what it was like to join this forum. You really had to make an effort to force your way in. We've all done it and carved out our own place. But to people on the outside, that's intimidating.
Of course it's the same for every other forum in existence, but this one in particular because our numbers are dwindling, and because no new content is inspiring people to join. Most fans are adults now. If you'll notice something, most of the people who have joined this forum recently are older fans returning to the series, not new fans.
I, for one, didn't join this forum because I wanted to talk about Redwall, it was because I wanted to join a Redwall Minecraft map (Gears' old one, not Abbeycraft, to those of you who are confused).
Quote from: James Gryphon on August 29, 2017, 08:52:53 AM
@LordTBT: I can't disagree with your concluding sentence, but that being the case perhaps a spoonful of sugar would be helpful in making the medicine go down here. ;)
I haven't done a statistical analysis of our members, nor had a deep involvement with the Redwall online community prior to 2011, but the experience I do possess, as well as my intuition, suggest that practically speaking Andy is not far off about the majority of online members being in the teenage age range (I might add "pre-teen" to that statement as well). Historically most of our RAF members here have been around that age, and the limited study I've done of other once-prominent Redwall community sites (such as the Redwall.net forum and the Long Patrol Club) seems indicative of a similar userbase.
That said, the audience that is being marketed to in every case is teenagers, so it's not logical to guess that a majority of the audience are not the type to jump into new fandoms. It's impossible to tell what exactly the outcome of a Redwall film would be on the community, but by the sheer virtue of the advertising and publicity that would accompany such an endeavor, it's a reasonable guess that it would not be a non-event. There are several Chronicles of Narnia forums, for instance, that seemed to have sprung up and peaked after the films were made, in spite of the books being around for half a century before that time period. Massive exposure does result in new fans. (If I had a million dollar advertising budget I bet I could get a few new members on here without having a film.) My expectations for the game are more subdued, for reasons of scale, but if it's well-done and successful enough to inspire more games in the series, there's no reason to suppose that it wouldn't shoot some extra life into things for a while.
Ah, well I don't operate on intuition. I use facts. I have raw numbers - and people younger than 17 are the minority. By a substantial percentage. I would expect a major motion picture to be marketed to teenagers and youth, sure. And in the past, ROC members were largely teenagers, but that's changed.
Because they've grown. :P
But they were teenagers when they got into it.
Another thing to keep in mind that the change of the internet itself might be a barrier to seeing a revived ROC, as it existed in the past, even with the video game and a motion picture. In the 90s and early 2000s forums also filled a social media function. Facebook, instagram, and all those other sites only came into existence in the mid 2000s- like around 2004/2005. With their rise in recent years they have overtaken forums. Also on these sites people write relatively short messages/posts in most cases, which is like due to using phones to surf the internet as opposed to laptops or desktops. Computers are much more convenient to type long posts on than phones- which are better suited to instant messages, short replies etc...
So teenagers today would be less likely to seek out forums I would guess. Whereas LordTBT you mentioned much of the present ROC is over 17 and they maybe former members of the old ROC which explains why they maybe drawn to this site or your Redwall wiki- which resemble the traditional ROC more than social media platforms do...
Quote from: Grond on September 04, 2017, 06:45:31 PM
Another thing to keep in mind that the change of the internet itself might be a barrier to seeing a revived ROC, as it existed in the past, even with the video game and a motion picture. In the 90s and early 2000s forums also filled a social media function. Facebook, instagram, and all those other sites only came into existence in the mid 2000s- like around 2004/2005. With their rise in recent years they have overtaken forums. Also on these sites people write relatively short messages/posts in most cases, which is like due to using phones to surf the internet as opposed to laptops or desktops. Computers are much more convenient to type long posts on than phones- which are better suited to instant messages, short replies etc...
So teenagers today would be less likely to seek out forums I would guess. Whereas LordTBT you mentioned much of the present ROC is over 17 and they maybe former members of the old ROC which explains why they maybe drawn to this site or your Redwall wiki- which resemble the traditional ROC more than social media platforms do...
Social media is a very good point because it's something that didn't exist then.
But there was also an energy about the newness of the internet and wanting to create your own website and mess with HTML. Everyone wanted to have their own personal website of some kind. (And social media largely replaces that).
With no Geocities or Angelfire, I don't even know where a kid would go to create their own free website.
Proboards.
Or Google Sites.
Or Weebly.
Quote from: Ashleg on September 05, 2017, 01:37:59 AM
Proboards.
Or Google Sites.
Or Weebly.
And none of these require learning a programming language to build your own website yourself. Key difference in the era.
Well, kids can still build their own (Redwall-related) website using those things, HTML or not.