Spears

Started by The Skarzs, February 03, 2015, 04:24:23 AM

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LT Sandpaw


Dagger aren't heavy enough to sustain a blow from a sword and can do absolutely nothing against a battle axe. If you were fighting against a sword the dagger would be knocked from your hand no matter how tight of a hold you have on it.

Against the spear unless your greased lightning on your feet you'll get stabbed. The dagger just isn't a capable weapon, I can see it being used as a secondary if it ever comes to grappling in battle which is most likely rare.


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Wylder Treejumper

Depends, perhaps, on your defenition of dagger. Most people tend to think knife at the word, but a normal dagger had a blade of 12" but could go up to 24", afterwards becoming a short sword. In the Middle Ages a short sword could be a long dagger and vice versa. So if you used two long daggers at, say, 18", I would say that would be pretty proficient weaponry. Also, if you close on an opponent, you have a far better chance with a 18" dagger than a 36" sword.
"'Tis the business of small minds to shrink, but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death."
-Thomas Paine

"Integrity and firmness is all I can promise; these, be the voyage long or short, shall never forsake me although I may be deserted by all men."
-George Washington

Courage: Not only the willingness to die manfully, but also the determination to live decently.

The Skarzs

True, but when most people think of a dagger they think of something around 8-12 inches (20-30 cm).
Cave of Skarzs

Cave potato.

Wylder Treejumper

Well, if Brian armed beasts with only daggers, they wouldn't have been puny short ones...
"'Tis the business of small minds to shrink, but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death."
-Thomas Paine

"Integrity and firmness is all I can promise; these, be the voyage long or short, shall never forsake me although I may be deserted by all men."
-George Washington

Courage: Not only the willingness to die manfully, but also the determination to live decently.

Hickory

And if they did use short blades, he'd've called them Sgian Dhus.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

Wylder Treejumper

Not necessarily, those were specific highlander blades.
"'Tis the business of small minds to shrink, but he whose heart is firm, and whose conscience approves his conduct, will pursue his principles unto death."
-Thomas Paine

"Integrity and firmness is all I can promise; these, be the voyage long or short, shall never forsake me although I may be deserted by all men."
-George Washington

Courage: Not only the willingness to die manfully, but also the determination to live decently.

Stonestripe

Even Rasconsa (spelled horribly wrong) had a short sword I believe
"Defend the weak, protect both young and old, never desert your friends. Give justice to all, be fearless in battle and always ready to defend the right."

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Lady Ashenwyte

Quote from: Wylder Treejumper on April 16, 2015, 05:47:13 PM
Depends, perhaps, on your defenition of dagger. Most people tend to think knife at the word, but a normal dagger had a blade of 12" but could go up to 24", afterwards becoming a short sword. In the Middle Ages a short sword could be a long dagger and vice versa. So if you used two long daggers at, say, 18", I would say that would be pretty proficient weaponry. Also, if you close on an opponent, you have a far better chance with a 18" dagger than a 36" sword.

Half-swording is also always a valid option.
The fastest way to a man's heart- Or anyone's, in fact- Is to tear a hole through their chest.

Indeed. You are as ancient as the soot that choked Pompeii into oblivion, though not quite as uncaring. - Rusvul

Just a butterfly struggling through my chrysalis.

rrrrr

Or maybe a sword that can turn into a dagger?
rrrrr.....

Ho arr, mateys, swimming is fun!

I had shrimp 'n' hotroot soup today.


Dannflower Reguba

       The popularity of the spear was also do to the fact that a wall of well placed spear-type weapons was a great counter to mounted units, it's biggest flaw being less mobility combined with the potential threat of ranged assault. The Roman's are still renowned for their "turtle" strategy, now I don't know if they managed to use it in such a way that their "spears" were pointing outside, but that would certainly be a reason for them to keep them close.

       As to the spear being under-rated, I can certainly admit it's not being used to its' full effect. However, I also must point out that a lot of the situations presented by the book would call for weapons such as swords or bows over spears. Often times, the fighting is in a wooded area, or another enclosed space. Lack of mobility in tight spaces is an already mentioned weakness of the spear, whereas a sword, while somewhat sharing this weakness, isn't going to suffer as nearly as much as a spear, especially if it's a short sword. You'll notice that some of the invading armies had what would appear to be a decent amount of this armament, Cluny's horde for example. That was a situation, where the vermin had a good strategic reason to use a spear over other weapons, they would expect to fight on the inside of the Abbey grounds, an open space with plenty of room for movement and organization. They also would've been coming from a pillage and plunder lifestyle, attacking places that didn't necessarily have walls to protect them, also allowing full effective use of the spear.

       And besides, they don't look nearly as awesome as other weapons.  ;)

(Shout out to the Landsknecht, first time I've seen someone mention them before.)
"Remember, sometimes is best to be like boomerang and come back." ~ Griffen

Experience is simply the name we give our mistakes. ~ Oscar Wilde

Mistakes can make you grow - That doesn't mean you're friends. ~NF - Remember This

Faiyloe

For some reason I never looked at this topic till just now and this is perfect. I am actually working on a fan fiction with the Spearlady Gorse in it so this is perfect research for that.   ;D Oh fate is good.  :D :P XD
I am back... sort of... maybe... Hi?

Lady Ashenwyte

@Dan The romans never used spears, they used the gladius, the spear you must be referring to is the on thrown, called a pilum.
The fastest way to a man's heart- Or anyone's, in fact- Is to tear a hole through their chest.

Indeed. You are as ancient as the soot that choked Pompeii into oblivion, though not quite as uncaring. - Rusvul

Just a butterfly struggling through my chrysalis.

The Skarzs

Quote from: Faiyloe on April 25, 2015, 03:00:00 PM
For some reason I never looked at this topic till just now and this is perfect. I am actually working on a fan fiction with the Spearlady Gorse in it so this is perfect research for that.   ;D Oh fate is good.  :D :P XD
Heh.
Cave of Skarzs

Cave potato.

Jetthebinturong

Quote from: Lord_Ashenwyte on April 25, 2015, 03:06:44 PM
@Dan The romans never used spears, they used the gladius, the spear you must be referring to is the on thrown, called a pilum.

Except thrown spears are still spears and pila were often used in melee combat
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Dannflower Reguba

       Spear, Javelin, Lance, Whatever you want to call it. I'm using the more general term spear to make things easy. I don't care what fancy name an ancient civilization gave to their spear, it's still a spear.
"Remember, sometimes is best to be like boomerang and come back." ~ Griffen

Experience is simply the name we give our mistakes. ~ Oscar Wilde

Mistakes can make you grow - That doesn't mean you're friends. ~NF - Remember This