Redwall Abbey

Brian Jacques' Works (Spoilers) => History, Legends and Myths => Topic started by: rrrrr on May 02, 2015, 05:07:38 AM

Title: magic
Post by: rrrrr on May 02, 2015, 05:07:38 AM
Is there real magic character in the books? Martin was sort of magic, because he could appear in dreams, but what else?

thanks.
Title: Re: magic
Post by: SoranMBane on May 02, 2015, 06:07:33 AM
The actual fantasy elements of the Redwall series have always been very muted. In general, the "magic" in this series usually consists of relatively undramatic things like omens, prophetic dreams, ghostly visions, hypnosis, and at least a couple cases of reincarnation. About the most dramatic thing we see happen is the occasional instance of Martin's spirit actually possessing some living creature in order to impart a message (or, in one instance, to finish off a bad guy). Some creatures are definitely more prone to these things than others (such as the Badger Lords, certain seers, or Ublaz Mad Eyes), but there are perhaps even more characters who claim to possess magic powers, but are really just complete frauds (the Marlfoxes, Zwilt the Shade, or pretty much all the other seers). So, magic exists, but it's fairly rare and exclusive.

This is actually kind of interesting to think about; Redwall seems to sit in this weird middle ground, where it has the downplayed mysticism of low fantasy (in fact, arguably even more downplayed than something like Game of Thrones), but with the light tone and black-and-white morality of high fantasy.
Title: Re: magic
Post by: Edraithel on May 02, 2015, 06:13:37 AM
Who was reincarnated? I haven't reread the series for awhile.
Title: Re: magic
Post by: SoranMBane on May 02, 2015, 06:16:22 AM
From what I've heard, according to Jacques himself, Martin and Rose were reincarnated as Matthias and Cornflower.
Title: Re: magic
Post by: Edraithel on May 02, 2015, 06:20:11 AM
Oh ok, I guess that's why I didn't know about it, since it's not mentioned in the books.
Title: Re: magic
Post by: Hickory on May 02, 2015, 02:33:58 PM
Eh....

Most of the time, it's seer's luck. According to Long Patrol, Midge relies on luck in the first interrogation with Damug, the second is completely different. The only one I think might have a "spiritual connection" is Ermath, the seer for Ruggan Bor. She describes a spirit (vulpuz) in detail, speaks his words, etc, etc.
Title: Re: magic
Post by: redwallgurl on May 02, 2015, 07:03:07 PM
Mainly magic is perceived as the spirit of Martin the Warrior, but personally I believe it's just someone to look up to and renew their spirits.
Title: Re: magic
Post by: rrrrr on May 03, 2015, 04:34:22 AM
Quote from: SoranMBane on May 02, 2015, 06:16:22 AM
From what I've heard, according to Jacques himself, Martin and Rose were reincarnated as Matthias and Cornflower.

Yes, it says in Redwall

Am that is => Matthias
Title: Re: magic
Post by: vencelylalas on May 04, 2015, 10:41:24 AM
i guess yes there's a real magic in books..since some books fiction authors have the power to create their own characters with magical powers
Title: Re: magic
Post by: Luftwaffles on May 05, 2015, 08:07:22 AM
Quote from: redwallgurl on May 02, 2015, 07:03:07 PM
Mainly magic is perceived as the spirit of Martin the Warrior, but personally I believe it's just someone to look up to and renew their spirits.

I agree, Cluny once said that the sole idea of losing the tapestry with the image of Martin would be enough to destroy the morale and fighting spirit of the Redwallers.  

But that said, I don't think that there's real "magic" in the Redwall universe... nor it would be needed. They seem to do fine with their weapons and strategy.
Title: Re: magic
Post by: Lady Ashenwyte on May 05, 2015, 12:41:46 PM
Quote from: vencelylalas on May 04, 2015, 10:41:24 AM
i guess yes there's a real magic in books..since some books fiction authors have the power to create their own characters with magical powers

An author can do anything they want with their characters.

Quote from: TheTaleOfSierra on May 05, 2015, 08:07:22 AM
Quote from: redwallgurl on May 02, 2015, 07:03:07 PM
Mainly magic is perceived as the spirit of Martin the Warrior, but personally I believe it's just someone to look up to and renew their spirits.

I agree, Cluny once said that the sole idea of losing the tapestry with the image of Martin would be enough to destroy the morale and fighting spirit of the Redwallers. 

But that said, I don't think that there's real "magic" in the Redwall universe... nor it would be needed. They seem to do fine with their weapons and strategy.

Morale is a big factor. A huge army could be routed by a tiny army if they did all they could to destroy their enemy's morale.
Title: Re: magic
Post by: Jetthebinturong on May 05, 2015, 04:43:00 PM
Quote from: TheTaleOfSierra on May 05, 2015, 08:07:22 AM
Quote from: redwallgurl on May 02, 2015, 07:03:07 PM
Mainly magic is perceived as the spirit of Martin the Warrior, but personally I believe it's just someone to look up to and renew their spirits.

I agree, Cluny once said that the sole idea of losing the tapestry with the image of Martin would be enough to destroy the morale and fighting spirit of the Redwallers.  

But that said, I don't think that there's real "magic" in the Redwall universe... nor it would be needed. They seem to do fine with their weapons and strategy.

There is clearly real magic in the series, Martin's spirit talks to people and the badgers have accurate visions all the time
Title: Re: magic
Post by: Izeroth on May 06, 2015, 05:10:10 AM
Quote from: Jetthebinturong on May 05, 2015, 04:43:00 PM
Quote from: TheTaleOfSierra on May 05, 2015, 08:07:22 AM
Quote from: redwallgurl on May 02, 2015, 07:03:07 PM
Mainly magic is perceived as the spirit of Martin the Warrior, but personally I believe it's just someone to look up to and renew their spirits.

I agree, Cluny once said that the sole idea of losing the tapestry with the image of Martin would be enough to destroy the morale and fighting spirit of the Redwallers. 

But that said, I don't think that there's real "magic" in the Redwall universe... nor it would be needed. They seem to do fine with their weapons and strategy.
There is clearly real magic in the series, Martin's spirit talks to people and the badgers have accurate visions all the time

Indeed. Unless all the Redwallers are hallucinating, magic certainly exists. However, much it is not exactly "traditional" magic, but rather a sort of mystical, spiritual form.
Title: Re: magic
Post by: Captain Tammo on June 05, 2015, 04:24:37 PM
If the series has any magic, I would say that it's mostly spiritual/mystical. I know Brian said that religion was not a part of the Redwall world, but I would say the magic we see certainly has some religious influence.
Title: Re: magic
Post by: MatthiasMan on June 11, 2015, 04:22:07 AM
When I think of magic, I think of a magician. So in that sense, yes, and no. In Redwall, I believe they dress up as magicians in order to infiltrate the abbey (correct me if I'm wrong).

But, generally the kind of magic in Redwall is more superstitious. Like omens and prophecies.
Title: Re: magic
Post by: Frank Clydth on April 14, 2018, 11:28:55 AM
Lets not forget that the Marlfoxes are renowned for their stealth,quick disappearances and magic.
Title: Re: magic
Post by: Jetthebinturong on April 14, 2018, 02:55:13 PM
Yes but that's a myth built around them based on trickery and illusion. They don't have actual magical powers.
Title: Re: magic
Post by: The Skarzs on April 14, 2018, 03:42:00 PM
In some cases they do have the ability to foresee some things, but it is nothing more than that.
If anything the badgers would be more magical.
Title: Re: magic
Post by: The Grey Coincidence on April 14, 2018, 08:06:06 PM
This has lead me to thinking...
How come Martin can come back as a ghost? In the three books that show him alive he doesn't go around possessing people (I mean I haven't read legend of Luke, but I don't think he goes around possessing people). I mean, do we know about any other characters that come back as ghosts? (I have encountered none so far in my reading of the books, but there are still many I haven not yet touched.)
This is also kind of strange seeing as Badgers are (arguably) the most 'magical' of the creatures (wisdom=magic?) and Lord Brocktree or Lady Cregga or Sunflash never went around giving advice to all the goodbeasts.
Anyone got any ideas about this thing I found?
Title: Re: magic
Post by: Ashleg on April 16, 2018, 02:29:36 AM
Martin is the "spirit" of the Abbey.

And I do not recall other characters coming back as ghosts or being reborn like Martin (Matthias) was, but I am not against the idea of it. In fact, I have used it myself for RolePlays. Seeing as Martin did not have magic during his lifetime, perhaps it's just something spirits can do, and most choose not to do it because they want to rest but Martin wants to be Redwall's defender even after death.
Title: Re: magic
Post by: sunflashtheace on April 16, 2018, 01:38:10 PM
Well I think that Raga Bol's seer was real magicc but hey who knows.