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Author Topic: long patrol size  (Read 147 times)

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Sanddunes

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long patrol size
« on: November 16, 2017, 10:59:50 PM »

If we go by history with the books the last time we read about Salamandastron before Redwall book is in the book Salamandastron at that time there was only 40 hares that we know of and after the Long Patrol and in that book there was 1000+ hares. Now before Redwall the Long Patrol size has gone up and down but rarely above 100 depending on the book but why do you think it grew
 
I think the fight against the Corpsemakers maybe the reason or one of the reason why it grew because Salamandastron was almost taken by them and that would have if it wasn't for the Guosssom coming to help so I'm wandering after that event someone in Salamandastron figured that this could happen again now why didn't happen before hand I don't know. 
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Ashleg

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Re: long patrol size
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2017, 04:23:26 AM »

Corpsemakers? Wat?
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The Skarzs

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Re: long patrol size
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2017, 06:07:13 AM »

Ferahgo the assassin's horde were called the Corpsemakers, I think.

The smallest it ever was was in the Outcast of Redwall, if my memory serves me right, and the largest in the Long Patrol book. Chronologically Long Patrol comes later, so it would stand to reason that the army would grow over time.
(I feel like the patrol itself should be a separate entity from the Salamandastron force. I mean, it's a patrol, not an army, and would be the equivalent of the special forces.)
After that, the number of hares seems to hover around three hundred, give or take, assuming not all of them went out to fight during crises like in the Rogue Crew.
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Sanddunes

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Re: long patrol size
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2017, 06:46:47 PM »

Ferahgo the assassin's horde were called the Corpsemakers, I think.

The smallest it ever was was in the Outcast of Redwall, if my memory serves me right, and the largest in the Long Patrol book. Chronologically Long Patrol comes later, so it would stand to reason that the army would grow over time.
(I feel like the patrol itself should be a separate entity from the Salamandastron force. I mean, it's a patrol, not an army, and would be the equivalent of the special forces.)
After that, the number of hares seems to hover around three hundred, give or take, assuming not all of them went out to fight during crises like in the Rogue Crew.

I thought there was 50 during the time of the Outcast of Redwall
In the books there has been only four vermin armies that were over a thousand (I'll listed them later if needed) so it is rare but does happen. My problem is I read to much military history books
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 06:58:39 PM by Sanddunes »
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Steelinghades

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Re: long patrol size
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2017, 03:20:56 AM »

The smallest it ever was was in the Outcast of Redwall, if my memory serves me right, and the largest in the Long Patrol book.

The smallest was in mossflower when there was only like three or four of them.
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Sanddunes

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Re: long patrol size
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2017, 07:07:34 AM »

The smallest it ever was was in the Outcast of Redwall, if my memory serves me right, and the largest in the Long Patrol book.

The smallest was in mossflower when there was only like three or four of them.

I thought it was 10 but you are right it was the smallest
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Steelinghades

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Re: long patrol size
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2017, 10:48:34 PM »

The smallest it ever was was in the Outcast of Redwall, if my memory serves me right, and the largest in the Long Patrol book.

The smallest was in mossflower when there was only like three or four of them.

I thought it was 10 but you are right it was the smallest

I've just recently started re-reading the series--in between working on my original series also involving anthromorphic animals--thus I know some of the early installment details.
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DelenatheWanderer

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Re: long patrol size
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2017, 10:03:36 PM »

(I feel like the patrol itself should be a separate entity from the Salamandastron force. I mean, it's a patrol, not an army, and would be the equivalent of the special forces.)
I agree, it seems that the two should be seperate. Let's say that the entire force put together averages 500, then about 60 would be the Long Patrol. So it's more of an elite force, in a way. Because not everyone gets in.
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Sanddunes

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Re: long patrol size
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2017, 12:47:35 AM »

Sorry I should have just ask this question why do you guys think the long patrol grew to thousand during the book long patrol
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The Skarzs

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Re: long patrol size
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2017, 01:46:11 AM »

It seemed like it was a. . . hasty move, on Cregga's part. Most of them were trainees who they rushed through so they could aid in the fight.
As to why there were so many at all, well, perhaps that was just a peak in the population. After the losses in battle, it would take more time to rebuild to that state since fathers and mothers (and potential couples) would have been lost. In addition to that, the casualties may have taken an effect on the mentality hares could take towards being recruited into the army/Long Patrol. After all, there were settlements elsewhere, like from where Tammo came from originally. They could just live there and choose not to serve the badger ruler.
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a crumb

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Re: long patrol size
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2017, 02:23:21 AM »

After all, there were settlements elsewhere, like from where Tammo came from originally. They could just live there and choose not to serve the badger ruler.

That is a very interesting idea, and one that makes the most sense to me in explaining the massive variation. Presumably, the need of, or honor/prestige attached to, Salamandastron was simply the greatest around the time of The Long Patrol. Chronologically, the last time we saw the mountain before being under Cregga was during the time of Salamandastron. That's a very significant amount of time. Who knows, maybe the force had been steadily growing since then, post-Ferahgo and Urthstripe, unnoticed by Matthias, and his son and grandson.

One possibility is that the size swells after a significant threat, as hare communities realize the potential/feel the call, and go to serve.
I don't know, though. Do we ever get the sense of the Long Patrol being smaller than Cregga's 1000 after The Long Patrol? If not, what caused it after Urthstripe to swell? Just a wider recognition by hares abroad that the mountain isn't necessarily secure?

The Redwall Wiki says Lord Brocktree and Sunflash had sizeable Long Patrols. I don't remember their books well enough to comment on that. When I get a chance, I need to look. If that's true, then maybe it shouldn't be framed as varying in size all over the place, so much as the era post-Sunflash to Urthstripe just being a bizarre dearth. Even that still leaves Boar having a token force as an oddity, though.

One last thought would be that the stability of the badger line makes a difference, though someone with a better memory over badger rulers would need to examine that. If there's no stable line or ready supply of badgers to lead, that could cause some severe drop-offs in recruitment.
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Sanddunes

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Re: long patrol size
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2017, 09:30:58 PM »

It seemed like it was a. . . hasty move, on Cregga's part. Most of them were trainees who they rushed through so they could aid in the fight.
As to why there were so many at all, well, perhaps that was just a peak in the population. After the losses in battle, it would take more time to rebuild to that state since fathers and mothers (and potential couples) would have been lost. In addition to that, the casualties may have taken an effect on the mentality hares could take towards being recruited into the army/Long Patrol. After all, there were settlements elsewhere, like from where Tammo came from originally. They could just live there and choose not to serve the badger ruler.

It seems during that time the long patrol had outposts in some areas like the one Tammo's father ran now he could have been independent,  left the long patrol and ran his own place
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