Vermin - inherently "bad"?

Started by BadgerLordFiredrake, April 26, 2015, 09:30:28 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

The Skarzs

Indeed.
A fellow member and I are writing a fanfic that plays with this idea (well, more of grab it, choke it, and try to fix it by killing it and bringing it back to life). It's in the editing stage right now, so hopefully you'll be seeing it within the next month!
Cave of Skarzs

Cave potato.

Grond

One spin on this topic, that I've never seen discussed before, is are the majority of vermin "born bad" or is it just a few vermin who end up being in positions of power in vermin hordes. An example of this is the grey rats in Marlfox- when the marlfoxes were killed along with a few of the commanding rats, the rest of them took up a life as farmers. By all accounts they were pretty content and didn't cause any further problems. While this case most clearly illustrates this point, another somewhat related example would be the Thousand Eyes horde following the destruction of Kotir. They were forced to leave Mossflower and while it isn't stated what became of them there isn't any reason to assume they went on to be murderers, thieves etc...

The Grey Coincidence

Quote from: The Skarzs on April 17, 2018, 04:29:27 AM
Indeed.
A fellow member and I are writing a fanfic that plays with this idea (well, more of grab it, choke it, and try to fix it by killing it and bringing it back to life). It's in the editing stage right now, so hopefully you'll be seeing it within the next month!
Glad to hear it, I have been waiting...
As for Grond's spin...
I think it comes back down to position. The way I see it vermin species have got a tendency towards being evil, like an instinct, but can choose to embrace it or ignore-though most aren't made aware that they have it. (Along with my earlier posts about not having moral boundaries). They just want to be happy.
To cite an example
The waterrats from Marlfox were content with being farmers because it was better to be a farmer than to suffer under the rule of Queen Silth and her brood. We never hear from them again though, so I think it's only a matter of time until some warlord shows up and makes another horde out of them. And then they'll get scared and obey to save themselves from getting killed in some cruel way. Then the ambitious ones rise up and become captains and gain power, and finally the warlord gets killed and the survivors scatter. Most don't think about the morality behind what they do and if it's kill that mouse or die (as it generally is) they'll be lining up to behead him! Or it'll be get that mouse and you can have a nice big cake- and not knowing or caring about anybeast but themselves- they'll still lign up to kill him. Naturally love complicates things and vermin are capable of love, so there are a lot of variables.
That is just a generic example of how they work. They're born with an inclination to be bad and then it's really just a coinflip of life as to how they actually end up.

On another note: Fanfics about this really interest me, anybeast know any good ones?
Profile by the wonderful Vizon.

Also, behold this shiny medal! How I got it is a secret...



Also, also, I am running fanfic conteeeeeests!

The Skarzs

It's a self-perpetuating cycle, it seems, very much like the way you described, Grey.
As another member said a long while ago, much like real life cultures where crime is commonplace, the children are taught or shown a that life is a certain way, they haven't seen anything else, and so they continue that type of action, further continuing the cycle.

I think, if vermin were able to be left to live for a generation or three, that tendency towards evil may diminish.
Cave of Skarzs

Cave potato.

Eila Wanderstream

Makes me wonder what would happen if Blaggut had had kids?
Also, what about the cat that Gingivere married? We're never told where she comes from.... And as we know from the original Redwall book, Skarzs' prediction about the evil tendencies diminishing has been proven correct - at least for cats, who were always kind of odd eggs anyway.

The Grey Coincidence

Quote from: Eila Wanderstream on April 19, 2018, 01:09:08 AM
Makes me wonder what would happen if Blaggut had had kids?
Also, what about the cat that Gingivere married? We're never told where she comes from.... And as we know from the original Redwall book, Skarzs' prediction about the evil tendencies diminishing has been proven correct - at least for cats, who were always kind of odd eggs anyway.
Well did Blaggut have kids with a mouse or with another rat? I can just imagine some rat corsair sneaking into Redwall and falling for the great big lovable Blaggut-even though she would act like your typical vermin and he... really doesn't. If it's with a mouse then... would they be able to breed?
Well evil tendencies diminishing... I guess I kind of agree with that. But like I said it's a coinflip, and even the goodbeasts have been shown going crazy from revenge and the like. So yeah... onions...layers...
Profile by the wonderful Vizon.

Also, behold this shiny medal! How I got it is a secret...



Also, also, I am running fanfic conteeeeeests!

The Skarzs

To my knowledge, rats and mice can't breed. Or, if they can, the offspring will be unable to reproduce, like ligers or mules. That's the case with a lot of crossbreeds, even if they are similar.
Cave of Skarzs

Cave potato.

Ashleg

They can't; though it's not to say in Redwall they can't, since other, weirder hybrids exist.

Eila Wanderstream

True. I mean, a Wearat? Though he didn't turn out very healthy, I noticed. Big and strong, but earless and mangy.... Ick. It would be like an otter-squirrel.

The Grey Coincidence

Rats and Mice look more breedable than squirrels and otters... an otter would probably find more luck in some of the vermin species, I mean they are all mustelids...technically.
Profile by the wonderful Vizon.

Also, behold this shiny medal! How I got it is a secret...



Also, also, I am running fanfic conteeeeeests!

The Skarzs

Yeah. . . Gets into some weird territory, talking about their real-life counterparts.

As for the wearet. . . Not the most outlandish thing I've heard. Ferrets and weasels are similar in physique, but it would be the same as a rat-mouse.
Cave of Skarzs

Cave potato.

Jetthebinturong

No not the wearets. The wearat. Singular. Razzid wearat.
"In the meantime, no one should roam the camp alone. Use the buddy system."
"Understood." Will looked at Nico. "Will you be my buddy?"
"You're a dork," Nico announced.
~ The Hidden Oracle, Rick Riordan

The Skarzs

Oh. Yeah, that one wouldn't work.
Cave of Skarzs

Cave potato.