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Author Topic: Lord Vulpuz, Lord of Hellgates  (Read 3822 times)

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Ashleg

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Re: Lord Vulpuz, Lord of Hellgates
« Reply #60 on: November 27, 2017, 05:07:56 PM »

Foxes do seem to always be the seers, with one or two exceptions, Juska or not. Right from the get-go we were greeted with Sella.
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The Skarzs

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Re: Lord Vulpuz, Lord of Hellgates
« Reply #61 on: November 27, 2017, 05:51:14 PM »

In my imagination, vermin may have a culture that is polytheistic. Foxes (and seers in particular) may homage this Vulpuz, though it could also be specific to the Juskabor, like Crumb said. Different factions may "worship" different deities that apply to them, much like Roman and Greek cultures, though East India may be a more accurate representation.
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Jukka the Sling

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Re: Lord Vulpuz, Lord of Hellgates
« Reply #62 on: November 27, 2017, 05:56:54 PM »

Kind of thinking/summarizing out loud here.  So what we know for almost certain is that there's some kind of generic figure, ruler of the negative afterlife.  Gabool called him the Dark One.  The Juska-bor's idea of Vulpuz seems to be somewhat different, since, as someone pointed out on this thread ages ago, Vulpuz seems to be respected by them, not feared.  Hmm.

@Skarzs:  Ooh, that's a cool way of looking at it!
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The Skarzs

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Re: Lord Vulpuz, Lord of Hellgates
« Reply #63 on: November 27, 2017, 08:01:42 PM »

Hades, Mercury, Yama, Osiris, all from different polytheistic religions depicting similar things. Osiris is probably the least, but he was respected rather than feared. Hades and Mercury may be the most applicable since they are nearly identical, (I think), from two different peoples.
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a crumb

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Re: Lord Vulpuz, Lord of Hellgates
« Reply #64 on: November 27, 2017, 08:25:07 PM »

wait...

a creature, formerly mortal, now hidden in darkness, power-hungry enough to take control of the afterlife, and the only species he is ever directly associated with is a fox, on top of being known by many different names?

there's only one explanation...

(click to show/hide)
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Jetthebinturong

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Re: Lord Vulpuz, Lord of Hellgates
« Reply #65 on: November 27, 2017, 08:27:16 PM »

Hades, Mercury, Yama, Osiris, all from different polytheistic religions depicting similar things. Osiris is probably the least, but he was respected rather than feared. Hades and Mercury may be the most applicable since they are nearly identical, (I think), from two different peoples.
Hades and Mercury are very different, and both come from the same general mythology. Mercury is the Roman version of Hermes. Maybe you meant Pluto?
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The Skarzs

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Re: Lord Vulpuz, Lord of Hellgates
« Reply #66 on: November 27, 2017, 08:30:24 PM »

Yes, thanks, Jet.

wait...

a creature, formerly mortal, now hidden in darkness, power-hungry enough to take control of the afterlife, and the only species he is ever directly associated with is a fox, on top of being known by many different names?

there's only one explanation...

(click to show/hide)
Le gasp.
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a crumb

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Re: Lord Vulpuz, Lord of Hellgates
« Reply #67 on: November 27, 2017, 08:32:30 PM »

Foxes do seem to always be the seers, with one or two exceptions, Juska or not. Right from the get-go we were greeted with Sella.

True, I hadn't thought of that. And it would make sense, given foxes are associated in folklore with trickery and magic.
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Grond

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Re: Lord Vulpuz, Lord of Hellgates
« Reply #68 on: December 20, 2017, 03:50:45 AM »

This is our article on the afterlife.

http://redwall.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Forest

One other difference between the Dark Forest and Hellgates is that there is direct evidence in the series about the existence of the Dark Forest. First there are the examples provided, in the article, with Martin and Sunflash conversing with beasts who were already there during their respective near death experiences. Secondly, I would add that it is also safe to assume that Martin the Warrior's spirit comes from the Dark Forest. Its existence is essentially confirmed as his spirit has contacted characters throughout the entire series who lived in very different temporal periods and geographic areas. Those contacted were also for the most part sane so these visions of MTW's spirit were not hallucinations. Whereas for Vulpuz we only have a fox seer telling a fox chieftain that the ruler in the afterlife is a fox. This could certainly just be an example of a fox praising foxes-their species. 
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Ashleg

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Re: Lord Vulpuz, Lord of Hellgates
« Reply #69 on: December 20, 2017, 01:14:16 PM »

Or...fox religion? XD
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The Skarzs

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Re: Lord Vulpuz, Lord of Hellgates
« Reply #70 on: December 20, 2017, 11:16:04 PM »

In my imagination, vermin may have a culture that is polytheistic. Foxes (and seers in particular) may homage this Vulpuz, though it could also be specific to the Juskabor, like Crumb said. Different factions may "worship" different deities that apply to them, much like Roman and Greek cultures, though East India may be a more accurate representation.
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Redwallforever29

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Re: Lord Vulpuz, Lord of Hellgates
« Reply #71 on: January 13, 2018, 02:11:16 AM »

Of the two cultures we see in redwall I would say vermin represent more of the pagan themes such as belief in the occult (with particular tribes believing more strongly in superstition) and Redwall itself being similar to Christianity. It is interesting though that the predictions about Tag were right, so that must mean in some way or form there is a devil in the universe. Martin pretty much represents Christ (and is pretty much worshiped by the Abbey) he even exhibits supernatural power while alive (like a visit from Boar in the dark forest) so it could be the vermin had something similar. Maybe Vulpuz was one of the first vermin to gather others to his cause. Or maybe he was especially vicious?

It’s kind of hard to say considering that the vermin seem to value things like trickery, deceit, lying and etc so maybe Hellsgates would he like a paradise for them??
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Jetthebinturong

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Re: Lord Vulpuz, Lord of Hellgates
« Reply #72 on: January 13, 2018, 04:43:12 AM »

I wouldn't actually say that woodlander religion is directly analagous to Christianity. In fact they seem either pagan or pantheistic, worshipping mother nature itself and making vague reference to a deity known as "the spirit of the seasons." It's worth noting that badgers seem to have their own religion which is quite apart from that of any other woodlander species.

Vermin seem not to be pagan, but just superstitious in general. The few of them that do follow a religion seem to believe in some sort of mysticism similar to that of many cultures, but that seems to be some blend of Celtic druidic tradition and Native American spirituality.
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The Skarzs

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Re: Lord Vulpuz, Lord of Hellgates
« Reply #73 on: January 13, 2018, 06:58:12 AM »

None of it is really set in stone. It's all pretty vague, and we can make correlations between religions and practices, but I don't think Brian intended them to be as drawn to belief systems in the same way humans are.
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Krantor the Brutal

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Re: Lord Vulpuz, Lord of Hellgates
« Reply #74 on: January 19, 2018, 09:58:18 PM »

I think Brian meant vermin to be kind representation of different cultures and religions which were pagan in theory. Whereas Redwallers were of a kind of proper religion whatever it is in that world.
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