Redwall Abbey

Brian Jacques' Works (Spoilers) => History, Legends and Myths => Topic started by: Trigoma on June 24, 2011, 05:08:44 AM

Title: Salamandastron!
Post by: Trigoma on June 24, 2011, 05:08:44 AM
oh this place is the shroud of mystery its self! can some1 shed some light on this place?! iv been wondering forever!
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: James Gryphon on June 24, 2011, 05:49:24 AM
Salamandastron, also known as the "mountain of the fire lizards", is the ancestral home of all of the great badger rulers in the known lands.

It houses the largest armory in the world, containing weapons from all its masters, past and present, as well as countless treasures and keepsakes. It has a great forge, as well as housing and supports the land's best organized, best-equipped army, the Long Patrol. Finally, ancient badger prophecies concerning all important details of the future are scrawled across the walls in a secret chamber therein.

It is a subject of mystery mostly to vermin, who have traditionally only rarely been able to slip within its walls. The few who have achieved this feat include only members of Ungatt Trunn's Blue Hordes, the infamous ship captain Ripfang, Ferahgo the Assassin's Corpsemakers, and arguably the Wraith, who stood right outside one of its windows (but got no further).

Salamandastron's legend was probably elaborated on to its greatest extent under Boar the Fighter, who operated a particularly small Long Patrol, and couldn't spare the resources to actively kill vermin, thus relying on fear and superstition instead. He operated elaborate fake "dragons" inside to light the mountain up and cause it to appear as though it were still inhabited by the 'fire lizards' which have been traditionally associated with it. In more recent times, the Long Patrol maintains several hundred hares and has somewhat moved away from these sorts of tricks to maintain their presence.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: DanielofRedwall on June 24, 2011, 09:47:39 AM
Forgive and correct me if I'm wrong, but lots of vermin believe that the hares and the badger lord is hiding treasure in Salamandastron.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: James Gryphon on June 24, 2011, 12:30:54 PM
They do, but unlike Redwall (which has no notable treasure whatsoever, besides the tapestry and the Sword), we find out that that that rumor is actually true, at the end of Salamandastron. The Badger Lords store, in addition to a vast armory (which would be extremely valuable as it is), a lot of other precious treasures, in their secret rooms, so Ferahgo (and all of the other, lesser warlords over the seasons) weren't wrong to believe that Salamandastron was worth taking.

They just maybe underestimated how easy it would be to get it.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: DanielofRedwall on June 24, 2011, 02:26:07 PM
Quote from: James Gryphon on June 24, 2011, 12:30:54 PM
They do, but unlike Redwall (which has no notable treasure whatsoever, besides the tapestry and the Sword), we find out that that that rumor is actually true, at the end of Salamandastron. The Badger Lords store, in addition to a vast armory (which would be extremely valuable as it is), a lot of other precious treasures, in their secret rooms, so Ferahgo (and all of the other, lesser warlords over the seasons) weren't wrong to believe that Salamandastron was worth taking.

They just maybe underestimated how easy it would be to get it.
Oh yeah, I remember that bit now!
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Taggerung_of_Redwall on June 24, 2011, 03:05:48 PM
The most mystical thing about Salamandastron are the Badger Lords themselves. They're the most powerful creatures, and almost all had visions of their ancestors and others. Gorath the Flame was by far one of the most interesting in such a respect.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Matthias720 on June 24, 2011, 03:45:12 PM
It's also interesting to think that Salamandastron used to be a volcano. That would explain most of the vermin legends about the "dragon" that supposedly lives there, which  Boar the Fighter helped perpetuate.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Redwall Musician on June 24, 2011, 04:00:45 PM
Did Boar come before or after Lord Brocktree?
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Matthias720 on June 24, 2011, 04:08:35 PM
Yes.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Taggerung_of_Redwall on June 24, 2011, 05:03:36 PM
Quote from: Matthias720 on June 24, 2011, 04:08:35 PM
Yes.

I don't think that answers the question.

Boar was Brocktree's son, so he came after.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Matthias720 on June 24, 2011, 05:10:44 PM
><

I misread it. I fail. :P

*headdesk*
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Wot Wot! on June 25, 2011, 03:03:18 AM
Many badgers feel a certain call to Salamandastron...this is definitely true of Sunflash the Mace in Outcast of Redwall...
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Osu on June 25, 2011, 02:03:17 PM
Ahh, Salamandastron - my favorite place in the series. I've always wondered about how the hares managed to carve out the insides. I'm sure they had help with tunnels and such from when it was a volcano, but it must've been difficult. And why badgers and hares? It makes sense, I suppose, that certain, special badger warriors would "feel the mountain's call," but why should the hares want to fight for/with them? Why not a hare lord, or a bunch of badgers?

Ah, all these unanswered questions. I love the mystery of this mountain!~ :D
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: martins#1fan on June 25, 2011, 05:42:10 PM
I always assumed it was well, just there, and that the hares and badgers discovered it together.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Osu on June 26, 2011, 02:13:31 AM
Quote from: martins#1fan on June 25, 2011, 05:42:10 PM
I always assumed it was well, just there, and that the hares and badgers discovered it together.
Such a story is exactly what I want to read.  :'( I know they formed the Long Patrol together in Lord Brocktree, but what happened between the time the volcano became habitable and the hares and badgers began living there? How did it become such a magical place? Auugghhhh I want to know!~ I could obsess over this fictional mountain for hours, haha. ;D
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Trigoma on June 26, 2011, 07:36:50 PM
lol salamadastron is so epic! wish BJ had taken the time to wright about it lol

oh and mathias. dont u mean "facepaw" xD
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on June 26, 2011, 09:19:58 PM
As soon as the mysteries are revealed you will not pay as much attention to it. Better let it stand in a mist of mysteries with everyone paying attention to it.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Pearl on June 26, 2011, 09:34:35 PM
Quote from: Osu on June 25, 2011, 02:03:17 PM
And why badgers and hares? It makes sense, I suppose, that certain, special badger warriors would "feel the mountain's call," but why should the hares want to fight for/with them? Why not a hare lord, or a bunch of badgers?

Ah, all these unanswered questions. I love the mystery of this mountain!~ :D

I like the way you think. Hares for me, are the most fascinating cultural group that Brian Jacques wrote about.
The book Lord Brocktree  gives us a lot of details on the cultural ties for both groups to Salamandastron.  Many questions do go unanswered, or are answered with the "that's the way it always has been" solution. For the most part I accept that, after all, part of the fun of Salamandastron is the mystery.
There is a poem that Fleetscut recited in Lord Brocktee;  to summarize, hares of Salmandastron have always followed the law of the Badger Lords.
Hares certainly have the potential to hold leadership positions. King Bucko Bigbones is the most obvious example. He is self appointed, however, in Brian Jacques' world that isn't all that unusual. What I find interesting is the way he is viewed by hares loyal to Salamandastron.  In Eulalia!  There is Laird Bosie McScutta of Bowlaynee.  Laird may not be equal to Lord. There is a title of Laird, which falls just below baron.  Whatever the case is, Brian Jacques established  a hare gentry. I suspect it would be very likely for a hare Lord, or Lady to exist. Not at Salamandastron of course, possibly in the north or the highland region.



Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Osu on June 27, 2011, 04:53:53 PM
@Pearl - I think I love you. o_o The hares have always been a high point of interest for me.
It seems "this is the way it always has been and always will be, don't question the mystery" is the norm for Salamandastron, but I'm absolutely positive there are settlements of hares in the highland areas where there is a single ruler of some sort. They probably don't use "king" as a title, but a lord/lady of sorts surely exists...

Bucko called himself king, but it seemed to me the majority of the hares of the area were more interested in his challenge or were simply impressed with his fighting prowess - they are described at one point as sacophant, if I recall correctly. I would go out on a limb slightly and suggest that, while there was certainly a lot of interest from the Salamandastron hares, the only hares of his court truly loyal to Bucko himself were those that came down from the north with him. Fleetscut makes the point (for me) when he says something to the effect of a king of hares being ridiculous or unheard of. It's also worth mentioning that when all was said and done, most of Bucko's hares stayed back at Salamandastron to serve under Brocktree.

Bosie, on the other hand... Bosie interests me immensely, mostly because of his title and heritage. He says he was kicked out of Bowlaynee castle due to his appetite, and along with the title "laird" -- now a hare king doesn't seem so unbelievable, though, again, lord or lady is probably a more likely title. Fascinating stuff, as you say.

And of course, there's always the solution of hares and badgers being the biggest non-vermin in the area apart from otters, and therefore the best candidates for an organized fighting force.
I love the mysteries of Salamandastron. Love, love, love. Ahem.

Apologies for the giant post of pointlessness, folks! ;D
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Captain Tammo on June 29, 2011, 12:32:41 AM
I think mr. Jacques meant for us to always wonder about salamandastron. If we always had all of the answers, what fun would that be?
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on June 29, 2011, 12:48:53 AM
Quote from: Captain Tammo on June 29, 2011, 12:32:41 AM
I think mr. Jacques meant for us to always wonder about salamandastron. If we always had all of the answers, what fun would that be?

As I said above.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Captain Tammo on June 29, 2011, 04:01:07 AM
Quote from: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on June 29, 2011, 12:48:53 AM
Quote from: Captain Tammo on June 29, 2011, 12:32:41 AM
I think mr. Jacques meant for us to always wonder about salamandastron. If we always had all of the answers, what fun would that be?

As I said above.
O sorry my bad
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on June 29, 2011, 12:43:44 PM
Tis ok.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Deogolf on June 30, 2011, 07:54:27 PM
My favorite book in the whole series!

I think Mr. Jacques would tell us to put our creative caps on and get to work making up our impression of what Salamandastron. I've mulled it over for years and may get to it yet! A great setting to go crazy with!!
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Captain Tammo on July 02, 2011, 09:45:43 PM
I wish the Long Patrol had a navy  :-\ that would've been awesome! It also probably would've come in handy with all of the sea rats that would sail away
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Redwall Musician on July 02, 2011, 11:30:23 PM
They do get a navy, well kinda, in Rogue Crew.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Osu on July 03, 2011, 03:49:18 AM
Hahaha, "kinda" is right... now how on earth will they classify that for the future, I wonder? Does it count as a "navy," or something else entirely? XD

Also, I believe it is worth mentioning that in High Rhulain, Salamandastron has two ships by the end of the novel, both captained and maintained by hares. :)
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Captain Tammo on July 04, 2011, 02:48:18 AM
Quote from: Osu on July 03, 2011, 03:49:18 AM
Hahaha, "kinda" is right... now how on earth will they classify that for the future, I wonder? Does it count as a "navy," or something else entirely? XD

Also, I believe it is worth mentioning that in High Rhulain, Salamandastron has two ships by the end of the novel, both captained and maintained by hares. :)

That is true. So why did they not have them in the rougue crew? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't the rougue crew happen after high Rhulain? If those ships sank in battle, then why didn't salamandastron get more?

Also I would like to add, could the greenshroud, when owned by salamandastron and the rougue crew, could that one ship really be considered a navy? Especially if it spends some of it's time on land?
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Osu on July 04, 2011, 04:57:10 PM
Good point. I'm fairly sure they've gained ships at various times throughout the novels but it never seems to last. Violet sums it up in the Rogue Crew when she says hares have never been seagoing creatures - and this when the officers looked ready enough to get themselves a navy.

It probably doesn't count as a navy on its own, but surely it counts for something - it does "sail," after all. Haha, it's like the Redwall equivalent of a car. Now they can drive to Redwall! XD
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Captain Tammo on July 05, 2011, 11:15:03 PM
Hahaha I wish I could drive to redwall!!!
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Gerbilkit on July 08, 2011, 02:56:51 PM
When Salamandastron was first introduced in Mossflower it was very mysterious and many secrets were implied. As it became an accepted, common, and even formulaic part of redwall tales it seemed to become less mysterious and more taken for granted that badgers and hares would always be in Salamandastron.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Storm on July 11, 2011, 03:18:07 PM
I wonder how so few hares remained in Salamandastron during Mossflower. All other times there were quite a few. Also, will someone please tell me how to say Salamandastron! The one time I played redwall I was laughed at pronouncing it Salamanderstrom.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Matthias720 on July 11, 2011, 03:24:50 PM
It's pronounced similar to salamander except you drop the (er) at the end and replace it with -astron (pronounced how it looks). :)
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Osu on July 11, 2011, 04:55:29 PM
Yes, like Matthias says. Sala-mand-AST-rawn.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Taggerung_of_Redwall on July 11, 2011, 04:56:49 PM
I liked Dinny's pronounciation. "Salad-mand-alon." in his spot-created verse
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: DanielofRedwall on July 12, 2011, 12:39:03 PM
Quote from: Taggerung_of_Redwall on July 11, 2011, 04:56:49 PM
I liked Dinny's pronounciation. "Salad-mand-alon." in his spot-created verse
Actually, it's "salad-anna-sconn" if you're talking about that marching song part in Mossflower. Sorry 'bout that!
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Taggerung_of_Redwall on July 12, 2011, 03:36:28 PM
I think Dinny continued with that verse throughout the trek to Salamandastron, and might have pronounced it differently. *shrug* Not sure.

But that brings up one of the greatest mysteries ever of the mountain. The quest of Martin & Co. Badgerlords had dreamed and drawn about them for generations, predicting the coming of a relatively small, but obviously noble and powerful, warrior. Lord Brocktree, Boar the Fighter, Sunstripe the Mace, all saw the drawing done by some ancient badgerlord.

Which brings up something else. Brocktree's tomb. It's pictured in many books, I can't name them all. It decays pretty heavily by the later books. His armor never dulled though.
I love the mountain's secret passages, countless practically in number and scope. So much legends in them, too. Secret walls, ancient treasure, countless fallen and passed badger rulers lying, I'd imagine, in their final resting places.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Osu on July 14, 2011, 12:29:43 AM
Yes, yes! I'm absolutely positive there are secret passages and places whose locations were lost - or just never found - to later generations. Especially below the surface - recall Stonepaw's party and what little they knew of their whereabouts when fleeing the blue horde, but as an old rhyme saved them, earlier hares must have known about it. Assuming the rhyme was thought up before they began recording history with the written word, I wonder what other secrets the hares may know about without really knowing...

Hey, that paragraph made no sense. In short, Osu could write entire novels on Salamandastron and never tire of it. XD
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: ilovemariel on July 16, 2011, 12:32:03 PM
salamadastron is volcnao that does not do the lava stuff anymore, hares of the long patrol live in it with the badger lords.
:-\sorry if i am wrong. I have only read up to outcast of redwall so I do not know much about salamandastron. :-\
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Osu on July 17, 2011, 04:37:26 PM
Yep, that's correct, ilovemariel. Salamandastron is a big, extinct volcano.

So there MUST be a ton of hidden nooks and crannies and-- and-- I wonder how far down it goes?
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: ilovemariel on July 18, 2011, 12:42:55 PM
I bet I could get lost and never find my way out!  :-\
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Captain Tammo on July 18, 2011, 05:43:47 PM
I'd love to be a long patrol hare!
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Redwall Musician on July 18, 2011, 06:57:51 PM
Quote from: Captain Tammo on July 18, 2011, 05:43:47 PM
I'd love to be a long patrol hare!

I am a Long Patrol hare. 8) Lol ;)!
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Log-a-Log on July 18, 2011, 07:30:41 PM
I think the echoing chamber mentioned in Mossflower is cool
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Osu on July 19, 2011, 08:58:24 PM
Quote from: Log-a-Log on July 18, 2011, 07:30:41 PM
I think the echoing chamber mentioned in Mossflower is cool
And it's never mentioned anywhere else, as far as I know. Same for that dragon head... I wonder what became of them? The dragon thing could have been lost or destroyed, but the echoing chamber must have played some role throughout Salamandastron's history?
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Dotti on July 20, 2011, 09:31:56 PM
I wish they would have kept the echoing chamber!  And didn't Boar have the equivalent of a sauna in his chambers? Was Salamandastron ever beseiged after Salamandastron?  I don't believe so, but even so, you'd think they would have mentioned the spring that Arula excavated in later books. :/
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Osu on July 22, 2011, 04:41:33 PM
There was some sort of bathing chamber with naturally warm water - or warm from the forge, I believe - mentioned in Mossflower, but not in Boar's chambers, specifically. I'm sure it's still there and in use, or something like it. Hey, the hares have to bathe, and the sea probably isn't the best place to do that... ;)
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: martins#1fan on July 22, 2011, 07:07:56 PM
Quote from: James Gryphon on June 24, 2011, 12:30:54 PM
They do, but unlike Redwall (which has no notable treasure whatsoever, besides the tapestry and the Sword), we find out that that that rumor is actually true, at the end of Salamandastron. The Badger Lords store, in addition to a vast armory (which would be extremely valuable as it is), a lot of other precious treasures, in their secret rooms, so Ferahgo (and all of the other, lesser warlords over the seasons) weren't wrong to believe that Salamandastron was worth taking.

They just maybe underestimated how easy it would be to get it.
No, Redwall has another treasure! FOOD!!!!!!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: brocka on September 20, 2011, 10:25:05 PM
Possibly the echo chamber is used to scare away would-be attackers by making them think the mountain is inhabited by spooky spirits. You know how terribly superstitious vermin are, with their seers and such.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Log-a-Log on September 21, 2011, 12:52:03 AM
I love the echoing chamber. I think its a neat idea, and I wished it would of showed up in the later books
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Tiria Wildlough on September 21, 2011, 07:49:26 AM
Quote from: brocka on September 20, 2011, 10:25:05 PM
Possibly the echo chamber is used to scare away would-be attackers by making them think the mountain is inhabited by spooky spirits. You know how terribly superstitious vermin are, with their seers and such.
You are right. It's a pity that the echoing chamber wasn't mentioned very much. :(
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Nightfire on September 21, 2011, 04:51:41 PM
Remember that giant stone dragon head that Boar always used to scare away the vermin from the mountain? That thing was awesome! He would set it on the windowsill, light a fire in it's mouth, and it looked exactly like a real dragon! I wonder what happened to it? ???
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Log-a-Log on September 22, 2011, 08:24:13 PM
There have been a few villains that have made it into Redwall, but the only two that I can think of that made it in Salamndastron were Ungatt Trunn and Ferhago.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Coobreedan on September 22, 2011, 08:51:29 PM
Quote from: Nightfire on September 21, 2011, 04:51:41 PM
Remember that giant stone dragon head that Boar always used to scare away the vermin from the mountain? That thing was awesome! He would set it on the windowsill, light a fire in it's mouth, and it looked exactly like a real dragon! I wonder what happened to it? ???

That was epic!
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Nightfire on September 23, 2011, 11:15:16 PM
Seriously, though. I wonder why no other badger lord except Boar ever used it, or even mentioned it.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Dotti on September 24, 2011, 12:13:49 AM
Even though Salamandastron is a mysterious place, it's not so shrouded in mystery in any following book as it is in Mossflower. Probably the chamber is like the horse in Redwall--Brian just hadn't completed his style yet, so there are a few things that don't make  lot of sense in the context of the later books. (Especially the creatures drinking milk in Redwall.  Although they do have cheese throughout all the books  :-\)
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Nightfire on September 24, 2011, 12:51:22 AM
Actually, I think they make a type of 'milk substitute.'
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Plugg Firetail on September 24, 2011, 03:06:16 PM
The reason the echoing chamber isn't in any other book because in almost every other book there was more than 10 hares.In most books the long patrol had 1,000 hares or so.There was no need for a echoing chamber in those cases.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Nightfire on October 05, 2011, 10:36:40 PM
Actually, I think they used 'Greensap Milk,' which I guess they got from milkweed or some kind of plant.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Log-a-Log on October 06, 2011, 01:31:37 AM
Yeah, I always wondered what Greensap milk was
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Nightfire on October 06, 2011, 06:48:58 PM
I Googled it!  ;D

Supposedly, Greensap milk is the juices of some kind of tuber.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Taggerung The Otter on November 07, 2011, 12:42:03 PM
think of redwall with not as many good foods and a lot of war
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Muse on November 07, 2011, 01:14:22 PM
Hey, everyone, I have an rp now in which we'll speculate about the first discovery of Sal. So come try it!
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Trigoma on May 28, 2012, 08:44:50 PM
The mystery of Salamandastron still exists...I cant stand it!
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Dannflower Reguba on May 28, 2012, 11:07:04 PM
 :D :D :D
Hee hee hee!
What is there to ponder? It used to be an active volcano. For some reason or other it died, leaving caverns, tunnels, and pathways. Badgers came and inhabited it, bringing hares with them.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Bragoon on May 28, 2012, 11:26:29 PM
Don't forget, a lot of the tunnels and halls were dug or expanded on by the badgers (and probably hares too) who lived there.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Trigoma on May 29, 2012, 09:39:43 PM
I would like to know who named it, what the legend of the fire beast is, and when the hares got there. Hares were there first obviously, judging from Lord Brocktree.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: redwallgurl on May 29, 2012, 09:40:47 PM
well Salamder could've been the reason of the fire in old days and I'm not sure of the rest the end of the word mountain maybe
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: gorath on June 01, 2012, 07:46:11 PM
astron, hmmmm. Maybe something too do with Astronomy?
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Redwallfan7 on June 04, 2012, 01:01:01 AM
I always wondered: is Salamandastron bigger than Redwall, less space than Redwall? And do they have the same room set up? Like the kitchens and cellars?
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Bragoon on June 05, 2012, 06:08:43 PM
It's bigger, since many animals have described it as very large, including Redwallers.  Also, it can house and support at least a thousand hares (as mentioned in one of the books, I believe it was the Long Patrol), which is surely more than Redwall ever has.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Dannflower Reguba on June 05, 2012, 06:54:35 PM
But Redwall supported the Redwallers and 1,000 visiting hares TWICE.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Bragoon on June 05, 2012, 07:21:54 PM
When did they have all 1000 there for an extended period of time? 
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Dannflower Reguba on June 05, 2012, 10:45:51 PM
The Long Patrol and Taggerung
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Bragoon on June 06, 2012, 05:56:53 PM
They didn't house or even feed them in Taggerung, they just came and left, and in the Long Patrol, only half of the hares were present, since Cregga left half with Colonel Eyebright to defend Salamandastron. 

Note: Unfortunately, I don't own Taggerung yet, so I could use some confirmation for my comments on Russano's action near the end of Taggerung.  I'm reasonably confident though.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Dannflower Reguba on June 07, 2012, 03:50:17 PM
Actually I JUST read Taggerung AND own it. Russano was planning on paying his respects to Cregga and then leaving right away BUT, Mhera insisted that he stay (there was some urging by other beasts too... I think) so they stayed for awhile... And sustaining doesn't mean something has to be big either, there were usually a good number of patrolers out at one point or another.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: W0NWILL on August 17, 2012, 11:23:20 PM
Quote from: Nightfire on September 23, 2011, 11:15:16 PM
Seriously, though. I wonder why no other badger lord except Boar ever used it, or even mentioned it.

I'm pretty sure it's because no badger lord ever needed it. They had plenny of hares, Boar had the least ever recorded. He relied on the searat's superstition to keep them away from Mossflower.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Trigoma on August 20, 2012, 06:19:13 PM
Whew, I used to talk so grammar-less and horrifyingly :o Times change.

I just wish Brian had a chance to write a book about Salamandastron itself before he passed on to the great abbey in the sky.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: phoenixfoden on September 21, 2012, 05:52:42 AM
he wrote salamandaston.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Lord Gorath on November 18, 2012, 01:38:26 AM
I think Salamandastron was made into the great fortress it is today by great badgers from the south, more south than Castle Floret.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Gonff the Mousethief on February 16, 2014, 12:39:11 AM
why is there only fire in it in mossflower? ???
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: 321tumbler on February 25, 2014, 02:19:40 PM
What?
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Wylder Treejumper on March 24, 2014, 07:44:53 PM
He means why is it only a "fire mountain" in the book Mossflower.
The answer is, in Mossflower is the oldest (in Redwall time) mention of Salamandastron.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Blazemane on March 24, 2014, 07:53:54 PM
I think it's because of the fact that the fire in the mountain in the book Mossflower is deliberately put there by Boar the fighter while he's trying to warn the pirates coming near the shores to stay back. He heats the forge room up and lets the flames show. Apparently none of the other badger lords were ever interested in trying this out.

But Salamandastron never erupts in the Redwall series, so even the "fire" in Mossflower is... literally just fire; never lava.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: 321tumbler on March 24, 2014, 09:24:01 PM
Quote from: Wylder Treejumper on March 24, 2014, 07:44:53 PM
He means why is it only a "fire mountain" in the book Mossflower.
The answer is, in Mossflower is the oldest (in Redwall time) mention of Salamandastron.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Osu on June 02, 2014, 03:11:08 AM
Alrighty, here's a question: are all hares who live at Salamandastron required to serve in the military? If not, do "civilian" hares live under a different set of laws and expectations than the Long Patrol hares, or are they subject to a sort of martial law? In the case of martial law, do the Patrol hares have precedence -- that is, would the Patrollers be considered the "higher class?"

In TSQ Buckler's brother and father were evidently not warriors: I got the impression Buck's dad didn't serve in the traditional sense, but rather just acted as an advisor to Brang. Clerun, on the other hand, was specifically mentioned as being on Patrol at one point, and then later on he left the Patrol -- and the Mountain. I got the idea that he had to leave the Mountain in order to leave the Patrol. And later on in the story, Clarinna specifically keeps away from Salamandastron because she doesn't want her babes raised to be fighters: so it seems to me all hares must fight if called upon, period.

But if that's the case it means the commanding officers knowingly send out sub par (for lack of better word) warriors to fight, and that doesn't strike me as a very hare-ish thing to do... using Clerun as the example again: he didn't stand a chance when forced into a fight which killed him, but he was definitely in the Long Patrol. How does that figure, I wonder? Either he was a trained warrior capable of defending himself or he wasn't; of course it's entirely likely he would have been killed in the end regardless, but it's disturbing to think he was left relatively defenseless despite having been a former warrior, especially a warrior by Long Patrol standards. Pretty strange. What do you guys think?
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: The Skarzs on June 02, 2014, 03:34:06 AM
Salamandastron does seem like a bit of a dictatorship, come to think of it, but not one that every beast under it's influence might be miserable about. I think that all hares in the mountain have an obligation to be trained for fighting. But I also think that they are lenient enough to let a hare go if they so desire.
Also, hares are noble creatures in the book, and most would like nothing better than to serve their badger lord in the best way possible, even if they have never been to the mountain and only heard of it.
Now I come to the point of those taking care of the mountain, i.e. cooking, cleaning, apprenticeships for weapon making, infirmary keeping, etc. These are necessary, and the hares in charge of some of these might never see battle. But aren't these all part of a military? "An army walks on it's stomach", so it would be a crucial part of the military. They are a background part of the military, but a part nonetheless.
So to answer your question: Yes, I do think so.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: SilentSam on November 21, 2014, 08:57:35 PM
Quote from: DanielofRedwall on June 24, 2011, 09:47:39 AM
Forgive and correct me if I'm wrong, but lots of vermin believe that the hares and the badger lord is hiding treasure in Salamandastron.
Wow.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: James Gryphon on November 21, 2014, 09:05:27 PM
Mod: Do not make single-word responses to previous posts. It adds nothing to the discussion.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: The Skarzs on November 21, 2014, 09:12:21 PM
It took me half an hour to type my last post; anyone want to comment on it? :P
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: LT Sandpaw on November 21, 2014, 09:39:48 PM

Ya sure,
I don't see Salamandastron so much as a dictatorship but more like a tiny warlike kingdom. In the case of an attack all fighters will most definitely be called to aid the fight because they are Oath bound to serve the badger lord and protect the western shores.
I'm sure they won't send babes to fight or elderly creatures and if they don't want to fight why would they be at Salamandastron. Isn't the entire point of the place to be a fortress, it's not Redwall a place of peace but a place of war.
What I think is hares being raised in the mountain itself would be influenced by all the other more warlike compatriots and become like them. Peer pressure if you will.
Of course Salamandastron is large, it's a mountain I bet it takes like half an hour to get to the top.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Søren on November 22, 2014, 05:43:05 AM
As far the notion of babes being obligated to fight, I think it would be a similar system that the Jedi used. Just with home-grown kids and not force sensitive ones.
Like, there is a group of young hares who are at Salamandastron, most will fight when the time comes, but there is always the (rare) option of leaving the Long Patrol.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Captain Tammo on November 22, 2014, 07:14:07 AM
Hm... This sort of reminds me of learning about the Greek City States in 9th grade; Sparta and Athens in particular and I think there are some pretty cool similarities that we can draw between the two.

Sparta is like Salamandastron. It is a warlike, isolated kingdom with a single ruler and very warlike in nature and reputation. Sparta was surrounded by mountains on a lot of fronts since Greece is just a mountainous area, and so is Salamandastron to the East.

Athens is like Redwall. It is a far more passive place that has a small fighting force, but pursues areas of education and medicine more than war. In addition, Athens was also surrounded by a huge set of walls that would always protect it from invaders (even the Spartans at one point!), and the Athenians were known to simply wait out sieges much like the Redwallers did.

I'm not saying that the two were based off of Athens and Sparta, but it's a fun coincidence!
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: The Skarzs on November 22, 2014, 05:29:00 PM
Actually, Sparta was ruled by two kings, not one. ;)
Yes, that is an interesting coincidence.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Captain Tammo on November 22, 2014, 09:12:15 PM
Quote from: The Skarzs on November 22, 2014, 05:29:00 PM
Actually, Sparta was ruled by two kings, not one. ;)
Yes, that is an interesting coincidence.

Huh... d'aw well, you get the idea!
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Hickory on December 11, 2014, 07:10:44 PM
Granted, most volcanoes have a naturally carved inside, but the hares must have carved some out. I believe the books mentioned Salamandastron was carved out. Assuming the first occupants carved it, we can say that the number of Stonepaw's hares were probably 120-150 so that's a considerable workforce. I assume that the forge may be heated from fire and underground magma, it's a possibility.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: nuncle Gabe on February 01, 2015, 04:02:56 AM
I love Badger Lords for the bloodwrath, But there was a bloodwrath mole, Axtel Sternclaw!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Lady Ashenwyte on February 01, 2015, 04:04:01 AM
Axtel didn't have Bloodwrath.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: The Skarzs on February 01, 2015, 06:24:58 AM
Yes he did, actually. Said so in the book. *Holds up book.*
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Lady Ashenwyte on February 01, 2015, 06:35:19 AM
Really? I have to check the wiki. I didn't read the Sable Quean.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Hickory on February 04, 2015, 01:06:23 PM
Heh. Anyway, Salamandastron was most likely an extinct volcano. Hares migrated from the North, looking for better options, and found the mountain. Using metal tools, the could easily carve out the inside. Even better, it has been displayed that the world of Redwall understands simple machines (ballistas) and can use them. Think, a screw as a drill! Chisels and other handheld tools helped make castles! It would be pretty easy, with a sizable work force.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Lady Ashenwyte on February 04, 2015, 01:10:20 PM
What if the magma chamber was empty and all the hares (and the Badger) did was make extra rooms and a staircase.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Lady Ashenwyte on April 10, 2015, 10:11:41 AM
REVIVE!!!

Off topic, but I just finished Salamandastron and what was the size of Ferahgo's horde?
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Hickory on April 10, 2015, 12:10:55 PM
Around 4,000? He said he outnumbered the hares by "fivescore to one".
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: The Skarzs on April 10, 2015, 03:38:10 PM
A hundred to one? Hmm. . . I'm in the middle of re-reading the book at the moment, so I'll see if I can notice anything.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: Hickory on April 10, 2015, 03:59:47 PM
He said when he first talked to Urthstripe, at the mountain entrance.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: The Skarzs on April 11, 2015, 09:05:04 PM
Haven't gotten that far yet.
I know that his horde was one of the "average" sized ones; Ungatt's was the biggest so far, I believe.
Title: Re: Salamandastron!
Post by: James Gryphon on April 11, 2015, 09:26:42 PM
From what I recall four thousand is considered to be a fair count for the Corpsemakers. They were the largest horde to ever appear in the series until the Blue Hordes, and're still good for #2. They were a lot bigger than just average; the Rapscallions were considered numerous with a thousand, and Cluny's infamous horde only numbered six hundred after taking in new recruits.