I was thinking (and I can't look this up at the moment because all of my books are packed up in boxes) what was the uniform progression of the Salamandastron hares and the long patrol? Particularly what the long patrols uniforms looked like in Rogue Crew.
It's been so long I can't remember.
I don't imagine it would have changed very much from, say, the Long Patrol, where it was shown as being a British colonial uniform, or at least similar to it. (Can't find the picture I'm thinking of.)
Here is the hare from The Sable Quean, which is near Rogue Crew.
(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/redwall/images/f/fb/Buckler.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20100224233642)
I recall the U.S. front cover of The Long Patrol had a depiction of the hares in a somewhat average garb. However the later books show more of a military parade-style uniform. I always associate the garb with that of a British Redcoat.
(https://pictures.abebooks.com/isbn/9780099638810-us-300.jpg)
(https://pictures.abebooks.com/isbn/9780142402450-us-300.jpg)
Interesting to compare the UK and US covers. I had never seen the UK one before. The uniforms look more...uniform. More standardly militaristic.
Indeed.
I wonder what uniform would fit a Long Patrol hare, since a lot of what they do is reconnaissance and running. My guess is that it would all be the same make, though different from the main force of Salamandastron. The color would have to be brown, green, tan, gray and or black so they can more easily blend in with their surroundings.
I have in mind they are like the redcoats of the 18th century.
That US cover... what's going on with the chap on the right? Looks like a badger-aardvark. :P
The UK edition of The Long Patrol was the (joint) first Redwall book I ever got and it pretty much cemented from there how I would picture the uniform.
The cartoons present them as wearing British style uniforms I believe.
> my obsession with Napoleonic era uniforms is triggered af rn
It's hard to imagine them with just one uniform though. I imagine they had an assortment. Anyways in that pic you can see a blue uniform amongst the red ones, at the forefront too. Having multiple colors wouldn't mess up their battling considering no other army in the books uses uniforms in the typical sense (I don't consider the headbands of the Gousim and the habits of the Redwallers uniforms in the typical sense.) the fact they were fancy uniforms is itself their identification in the mess of battle.
And the Napoleonic era armies we're using to guide us here didn't use all one colour too, though that's how we think of them. Each did have a /predominant/ colour, but their forces had a fairly wide range of colours each, though usually different in shade compared to the enemy's. Not that it did much help in the smoke filled battlefields.
Here's an assortment of French Chasseurs a Cheval:
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/24/f5/73/24f573824a1e426342188415e33c96a0--color-card-napoleonic-wars.jpg
More French cavalry units, except for the Polish Trumpeter:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/44/41/81/444181c762c16f8f3667b34888612b38.jpg
Wellington's British Light Cavalry:
https://ospreypublishing.com/media/catalog/product/cache/2/image/958def80b7ce809d46640f86aa46835c/9/7/9780850454499.jpg
The infantry usually were mostly the predominant colour of their nation, but there was difference there too. Austrians used mainly white, but some wore gray and blue. And the white uniforms had differences from other white uniforms in the army.
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/47/ab/37/47ab3704ebae277abae05f7f3a8ba22c--napoleonic-wars-drummers.jpg
During the Victorian era the colour did become somewhat more standardized, partially due to the slow dissapearence of cavalry units. (Though that didn't end until WW1. The British army started with about /half/ their units as cavalry because of misconceptions about the war. And in WW2 there was some cavalry, if you count soldiers on bicycles.)
Certainly they would have varied like that. :) I'm a fan of the uniform from around those times, too. ;D
The hares' uniform being that design has always jarred with me for accepting Redwall as simply a medieval setting. I try to meet in the middle for a rough equivalent dating of it where that kind of uniform would be more comfortable, yet there is still a medieval influence.
Oh, I think we can certainly say Redwall is in no way Mediaeval. After all, that generally implies feudal- at least in Europe- and Redwall is not feudal at all. Redwall is very idealized, and doesn't really fit any real setting at all.
Personally, I believe Brian was writing of more recent developments than the Napoleonic wars. The Long Patrol's uniforms seemed to resemble the Early Modern Era British military uniforms rather more than the elaborate Napoleonic ones.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/d7/eb/d3/d7ebd390c343f8fb1bfe571ed4e75cbc.jpg)
^ Yeah, a good illustration to use there; certainly that works the most closely with the image given on the UK cover. And it's also the attitude: it's the stereotypical 'what ho chaps!' way they speak which has more in common with the late 19th - early 20th Century (reminding me of how sergeants and the like spoke during the War), and so more suited to that uniform, as well.
Pretty sure the rookies, at least, wear green.
Also notable is that Jacques identified the RAF as a major inspiration for the Long Patrol. Growing up as he did in WWII, that would make sense - he drew on other elements of that time for Redwall as well.
The RAF are hardly medieval. But the general array of ship types, weapon types and the like within the Redwall universe definitely don't make its dating obvious. It's just a wonderful, creative amalgam of interesting things from our world, within reasonable relevance to a world of medieval adventure, is how I think of it.
Redwall is a mix of the feudal period and the Napoleonic and Victorian period for sure.
Or maybe we shouldn't try to assign real world eras to the Redwall world. It obviously mixes elements from different real world times and introduces some new stuff.
^^^^
I think it is perfectly reasonable to assume, however, that the Long Patrol did draw inspiration from real life, and that is in general what we are discussing.
Now, we know that, at several points throughout the series at least, the Long Patrol does wear uniforms. It's not necessarily made very clear what the uniforms look like, but the books mention at least 4 types of uniforms: campaign, field, dress, and mess- standard for late 19th to early 20th century British forces. The campaign uniform- which includes a pith helmet- is noted as dun (greyish tan), the field uniform as green, the dress uniform as green velvet, and the mess jacket as red/pink. From these, I think we can get a fairly good idea of what the Long Patrol uniform scheme looks like.
(http://www.militarysunhelmets.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/British1.jpg)
Here we have two of the types of uniforms: Field on the left, campaign on the right (including the pith helmet). As was standard in this era, the dress uniform would be the same style as the field uniform, but made of velvet rather than the usual wool, with more elaborate ribbon and cuffs, full military decoration and additional embellishment (see the mess jacket picture below). They would, of course, be in green rather than the red portrayed here.
The mess jacket, worn most notably by Meldrum the Magnificent, would look more like this (although with many, many more medals):
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5d/Cut_away.JPG/220px-Cut_away.JPG)
We can also be fairly sure that the Patrol only wore the upper half of the uniform, as in no case in the Redwall series is there a mention of pants or boots. Indeed, the uniforms are referred to much more often as tunics than as uniforms (which is, perhaps, one of the sources of confusion surrounding them). This is consistent with the uniforms shown above and in my previous post, for which the upper garment is indeed called the tunic. A fully kitted-out hare with the Sam Browne belt and pack would be well-equipped for campaign and battle, and the green tunics are much more conducive to stealth ventures in the woodlands of Mossflower and the surrounding regions than the bright red of the British forces.
but what do you think the salamandastron sleepers (outcast of redwall)wore ???
Quote from: Nadaz, voice of the host on November 05, 2017, 10:00:09 PM
but what do you think the salamandastron sleepers (outcast of redwall)wore ???
What were the sleepers, I don't recall them.