Redwall Abbey

Brian Jacques' Works (Spoilers) => History, Legends and Myths => Topic started by: Tam and Martin on June 07, 2013, 07:49:46 PM

Title: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Tam and Martin on June 07, 2013, 07:49:46 PM
There is a song in High Rhulain that is about Skilly and Duff. A line in that song goes like this:
 
                  "You're run like a hare and fight like a bear,
                     On Good 'ol Skilly 'n' Duff!"

 Do you think that they're is possiby a bear in the redwall world? There are Wolverines in redwall so there might be bears too? In this line they are acknowledging that they know what a bear is?  Thoughts?
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on June 07, 2013, 08:16:42 PM
Well, if there are bears in the Redwall series, they would be HUGE! Redwall Abbey probubly would withstand an attack by one.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Leatho Shellhound on June 07, 2013, 10:14:52 PM
Hmmm I think it was just for the song.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on June 07, 2013, 10:59:14 PM
Ah'm reminded o' ze Berenztain Bearz...Anyvay, back tae ze topic...

Mayhapz zey could be real zmall bearz...
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Buzz_Bumble on June 08, 2013, 12:49:38 AM
There haven't been wild bears in England for a LONG time, so that basically rules out bears being in Mossflower. It's possible that the song is referring to an animal they know of from ancient history (like we know of dinosaurs and dodos), or an imaginary animal used in dibbun's tales (like dragons and ogres), or simply an animal from a far away land.

Besides, it's better than saying "run like a snail and fight like an autumn leaf."  ;)
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Romsca on June 08, 2013, 02:55:04 AM
In the fanfic "The Outlander" by SandyB there's a panda bear
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Rusvul on June 08, 2013, 09:07:58 PM
Quote from: Buzz_Bumble on June 08, 2013, 12:49:38 AM
There haven't been wild bears in England for a LONG time, so that basically rules out bears being in Mossflower. It's possible that the song is referring to an animal they know of from ancient history (like we know of dinosaurs and dodos), or an imaginary animal used in dibbun's tales (like dragons and ogres), or simply an animal from a far away land.

Besides, it's better than saying "run like a snail and fight like an autumn leaf."  ;)
Hmm. Your point is valid, and probably the most likely, if everyone feels the need to overthing an oversight, though I would like to point out that Dodos are not ancient history, humans hunted them to extinction several hundred years ago.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Tam and Martin on June 08, 2013, 09:41:50 PM
Quote from: Leatho Shellhound on June 07, 2013, 10:14:52 PM
Hmmm I think it was just for the song.
I was thinking that but they must need to know what a bear is to use it in a song.

Quote from: Buzz_Bumble on June 08, 2013, 12:49:38 AM
There haven't been wild bears in England for a LONG time, so that basically rules out bears being in Mossflower. It's possible that the song is referring to an animal they know of from ancient history (like we know of dinosaurs and dodos), or an imaginary animal used in dibbun's tales (like dragons and ogres), or simply an animal from a far away land.

Besides, it's better than saying "run like a snail and fight like an autumn leaf."  ;)
That is one of the best explanations for this topic I'd say.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Buzz_Bumble on June 09, 2013, 12:54:23 AM
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on June 08, 2013, 09:07:58 PM
... though I would like to point out that Dodos are not ancient history, humans hunted them to extinction several hundred years ago.

They're ancient history in the sense that nobody currently alive has ever seen a live one, nor has anyone in the last few generations. It could be similar with bears in Redwall - they could have died out in Mossflower generations ago, so no living or recent beasts have ever seen one, but they know what they are from the history.  :)
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on June 10, 2013, 04:36:11 PM
Quote from: Buzz_Bumble on June 09, 2013, 12:54:23 AM
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on June 08, 2013, 09:07:58 PM
... though I would like to point out that Dodos are not ancient history, humans hunted them to extinction several hundred years ago.

They're ancient history in the sense that nobody currently alive has ever seen a live one, nor has anyone in the last few generations. It could be similar with bears in Redwall - they could have died out in Mossflower generations ago, so no living or recent beasts have ever seen one, but they know what they are from the history.  :)

An' actually, huntin' vaznae ze real zin' zat killed zem. It vaz ze introduction o' nev zpeciez like Dogz zat killed zem. Anyvay, back tae ze topic...
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Buzz_Bumble on June 11, 2013, 09:18:49 AM
Nobody really knows what killed off the dodo. Sailors eating them all is often the rumoured cause, but many reports say they didn't taste very nice (then again, a sailor stuck at sea with only preserved meat would jump at the chance of eating anything fresh). It was most likely a combination of lots of things - being unafraid of man and the dogs they brought with them, rats from the visiting ships eating the eggs, the removal of their forest habitat, a natural disaster (like a tidal wave) that killed off too many for them to sustain a population even before man arrived, etc.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Shadowed One on June 11, 2013, 12:45:03 PM
I think it was just for that one song.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on June 11, 2013, 04:27:18 PM
Quote from: Buzz_Bumble on June 11, 2013, 09:18:49 AM
Nobody really knows what killed off the dodo. Sailors eating them all is often the rumoured cause, but many reports say they didn't taste very nice (then again, a sailor stuck at sea with only preserved meat would jump at the chance of eating anything fresh). It was most likely a combination of lots of things - being unafraid of man and the dogs they brought with them, rats from the visiting ships eating the eggs, the removal of their forest habitat, a natural disaster (like a tidal wave) that killed off too many for them to sustain a population even before man arrived, etc.

Or it could 'ave been a Zloth, a Tiger, an' a Mammoth vith zome zmaw hairy creature came an' tried tae take zere melonz, an' aw but vone o' ze melonz vaz mezzed up an' ze Zloth an' company took ze lazt melon vhile ze Dodoz lozt mozt o' zere group (includin' ze lazt female) vhen zey fell off ze zide o' a cliff...
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Buzz_Bumble on June 12, 2013, 08:02:29 AM
I reckon it was Tigger ... he bounced on them all.  ;)


Quote from: Shadowed One on June 11, 2013, 12:45:03 PM
I think it was just for that one song.

There's a few things that happen only once or twice, especially in the early books (e.g. in the first book or so there's a horse-drawn cart, but horses never appear again). I think that as Brian Jacques settled into the "Redwall universe" he kept it simple, which helped make the stories more enjoyable and "believable" ... it would be rather ridiculous having a bear fighting a shrew, for example.  :)
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Kitsune on June 12, 2013, 06:23:45 PM
Quote from: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on June 11, 2013, 04:27:18 PM
Quote from: Buzz_Bumble on June 11, 2013, 09:18:49 AM
Nobody really knows what killed off the dodo. Sailors eating them all is often the rumoured cause, but many reports say they didn't taste very nice (then again, a sailor stuck at sea with only preserved meat would jump at the chance of eating anything fresh). It was most likely a combination of lots of things - being unafraid of man and the dogs they brought with them, rats from the visiting ships eating the eggs, the removal of their forest habitat, a natural disaster (like a tidal wave) that killed off too many for them to sustain a population even before man arrived, etc.

Or it could 'ave been a Zloth, a Tiger, an' a Mammoth vith zome zmaw hairy creature came an' tried tae take zere melonz, an' aw but vone o' ze melonz vaz mezzed up an' ze Zloth an' company took ze lazt melon vhile ze Dodoz lozt mozt o' zere group (includin' ze lazt female) vhen zey fell off ze zide o' a cliff...
I remember that part! :D

I don't think there were bears where they were, they could have been elsewhere. Legend of them could have come from some travelling beast, or 'bears' could have been made up in Redwall like dragons to us.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on June 12, 2013, 08:07:00 PM
Quote from: PluggFiretail on June 12, 2013, 06:23:45 PM
I don't think there were bears where they were, they could have been elsewhere. Legend of them could have come from some travelling beast, or 'bears' could have been made up in Redwall like dragons to us.
A very good theory, Plugg. That sounds like one of the most reasonable answers so far.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Kitsune on June 12, 2013, 08:21:43 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on June 12, 2013, 08:07:00 PM
Quote from: PluggFiretail on June 12, 2013, 06:23:45 PM
I don't think there were bears where they were, they could have been elsewhere. Legend of them could have come from some travelling beast, or 'bears' could have been made up in Redwall like dragons to us.
A very good theory, Plugg. That sounds like one of the most reasonable answers so far.

Yay! ;D
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Rusvul on June 13, 2013, 05:05:01 PM
I know this is irrelevant to the conversation, but I would like to adress it: Are you completely sure that dragons don't exist, and never have? I'm not.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Romsca on June 13, 2013, 06:12:56 PM
Me neither
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Kitsune on June 13, 2013, 07:42:09 PM
It would be awesome if they did exist. I'm pretty sure they don't, though. :-\
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Buzz_Bumble on June 14, 2013, 08:57:25 AM
Dragons in the sense of fire breathing, flying lizards have never existed. They're mythical, made-up beasts, like unicorns, Pegasus, fairies, leprechauns, Bigfoot, Loch Ness Monster, and lots of other fantasy creatures. One of the many likely causes is probably someone finding old fossilised dinosaur bones. The stories of dragons tend likely started in China.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Rusvul on June 14, 2013, 02:03:33 PM
Quote from: Buzz_Bumble on June 14, 2013, 08:57:25 AM
Dragons in the sense of fire breathing, flying lizards have never existed. They're mythical, made-up beasts, like unicorns, Pegasus, fairies, leprechauns, Bigfoot, Loch Ness Monster, and lots of other fantasy creatures. One of the many likely causes is probably someone finding old fossilised dinosaur bones. The stories of dragons tend likely started in China.
Fire breathing, very very unlikely. But, a large flying wyvern-type lizard in the prehistoric era is not out of the question. If you take, say, a raptor, and get rid of its arms, and add a pair of wings, what do you have? Perhaps a type of dragons existed at some point while raptors were evolving into birds, but were not very good at surviving for whatever reason, and died out quickly. Also, it's impossible to prove that dragons don't exist. And, every single old, ancient, or tribal culture had some form of dragon. Even those that had no contact with each other, ever. Oriental countries: Benevolent, godlike, Lung dragons. Europe: Horrifying princess-snatching beasts. Central and South America: Quetzalcoatl, other creatures of the like. Native American tribes: Dragon-like totems, if I'm not mistaken, also large brown leathery dragonlike creatures.

Europe had no contact with Native Americans, and by the time they did, dragons were already established. Same goes for Central and South America.

I'm not saying that dragons are real, simply that some form of them could have been, and we will likely never know either way.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Buzz_Bumble on June 15, 2013, 01:36:44 AM
Quote from: rusvulthesaber on June 14, 2013, 02:03:33 PM
Fire breathing, very very unlikely. But, a large flying wyvern-type lizard in the prehistoric era is not out of the question. If you take, say, a raptor, and get rid of its arms, and add a pair of wings, what do you have? Perhaps a type of dragons existed at some point while raptors were evolving into birds,

Various flying dinosaurs definitely existed, and some were huge ... but there weren't any humans around at that time to see them and pass on stories about them, and they certainly weren't "dragons". As above, the discovery of dinosaur fossils in ancient times of such large bones are likely to be a start of many "dragon" stories.

"Dragons" come from made-up stories about things like myterious caves with "odd" sounds coming from them, or a forrest fire started by a lightning stike which nobody saw, etc. Even someone telling lies to get out of being in trouble ("Did you start that fire slave Aramus?" "No, sir, it was the dragon who lives in the cave by the stream.").



QuoteEurope had no contact with Native Americans, and by the time they did, dragons were already established. Same goes for Central and South America.

There are LOTS of similarities between the cultures of various native people separated by vast distances. There's also lots of theories of why they're similar - from the rather silly idea of aliens visiting the various tribes (alien spaceships with flaming exhausts are also another suggested idea for some dragon stories) or simply that ancient people travelled much wider distances than we first thought. For example, there's possible evidence that Australia and New Zealand may have been visited by Europeans LONG before the days of Captain Cook, Abel Tasman or even Willem Janszoon (currently thought to be the first person).

Then again, there are also lots of similarities between animal species that evolved on separate island groups, so it's likely that some of it is simply due to people and nature finding the same solution to the same problem.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Mariel on June 15, 2013, 07:00:17 PM
If there were dragons in Mossflower they would probaly go to Redwall and eat all the Redwallers.  :'(     
Besides , then some villan would go and bribe a dragon to be on their side. The whole of Mossflower would end!  :(
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Buzz_Bumble on June 16, 2013, 03:38:02 AM
If there were dragons in Redwall, ALL the beasts in Redwall Abbey wouldn't even make enough for a snack.  :)

There's an idea for the Redwall Recipe Book ... roasted Abbess / Abbott.  ;)
(Some people around the world do eat squirrel, mouse, etc.)
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: The Shade on June 16, 2013, 08:12:46 PM
Well I don't know about dragons, but there was this kind of dinisour that breathed out fire/acid. It was the one with the horn behind its head, I wish I could remeber its name. In the horn behind its head,  it mixed up chemicals which when blown out and exposed to air ignighted. I remeber reading about it. Thats where dragons came from ;)
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Tam and Martin on June 16, 2013, 09:24:12 PM
Well, There was a study about dinosaurs. It said that when a dinosaur belches, it breathes out methane gas. When the gas connects with the oxygen in the air...*BOOM* Fire!
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Buzz_Bumble on June 17, 2013, 08:16:29 AM
Errr .... no. Every animal belches methane (which is why the Climate Change people want to tax farmers for all their cows, etc.), and you don't see lots of explosions happening.  :)

There's lots of animals that spit acid or poison, but I've never ever heard of any that spit fire (other than crazy human "fireeater" people). A very quick Google search only turns up "fire breathing dinosaurs" on religious-nutter websites and this from the Berkeley University website ... 
QuoteThere are two subfamilies of hadrosaurs, the Lambeosaurinae, which have a crest on the skull (like the top skull at right), and the Hadrosaurinae, which lacked the crest (like the bottom skull at right). The crest on a lambeosaur's skull contains the nasal passages, which "looped" through the crest and often formed sizeable chambers before passing into the airway. Why the crest? A number of hypotheses have been seriously suggested:

  • the crest was a "snorkel" so that lambeosaurs could breathe while under water (but the crest had no opening to the outside, except for the nostrils);
  • the crest warmed the air that the lambeosaurs were breathing (but lambeosaurs already lived in warm climates);
  • the crest was an extra reservoir of air for swimming lambeosaurs (but it doesn't hold much air, and lambeosaurs probably didn't swim very much);
  • the crest enabled lambeosaurs to breathe fire from their nose (but there's no evidence that the delicate bones of the nose were ever exposed to high temperatures regularly).

Note that last bullet point. So it looks like fire-breathing dinosaurs are just a myth as well.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: rachel25 on June 17, 2013, 03:11:50 PM
maybe not dragons could have existed a looonnnnngggggggg time ago there's no proof saying they didn't exist  :P   
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: The Shade on June 17, 2013, 08:28:02 PM
@Buzz_Bumble no offence but you seem VERY eager to put the idea of a fire breathing dinosaur down. Why??
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Buzz_Bumble on June 17, 2013, 10:22:17 PM
Because fire breathing dinosaurs never existed. Even if a fire-breathing dinosaur had existed, there were not any humans around with the dinosaurs, so it's couldn't possibly be the source of dragon myths.

Dragons are just another silly myth, a made up nonsense along with all the other fairy tales and fantasy creatures from ye olde days where the vast majority of people were stupid, easily fooled, and superstitious.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: The Shade on June 18, 2013, 10:25:55 AM
How do you know there wasn't humans when the fire breathing dinosaur lived?? Did you have a look??

Yes, I don't believe in dragons, but a fire breathing dinosaur is'nt out of the question, I certinly believe it.

And people wer'nt easily fooled, superstitious yes, stupid no.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Rusvul on June 18, 2013, 01:02:42 PM
We know that people weren't there because there hasn't been a single primate skeleton found that dates back to that time. Much, much later. Rather than 65 billion years, we've found maybe primate skeletons tens of thousands of years old, just an estimate. And I know what you might say: Well, just since nobody's ever found one, that doesn't mean they don't exist...
That's the same principle that makes it possible for dragons to have existed. Since you can't prove a negative (About the existance of something), this argument can't really go anywhere.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: rachel25 on June 18, 2013, 02:19:01 PM
all the skeletons would have been washed away in the World Wide Flood and people have been on earth since it was created but that depends on what you believe in and I believe that humans were created on the sixth day and that Adam named all the animals 
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Romsca on June 18, 2013, 03:01:40 PM
So are we saying that bears could have existed in Redwall either before all of the Redwallers or at the time of the earliest Redwallers (though they weren't called Redwallers yet)? Or are we saying they were just made up?
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Kitsune on June 18, 2013, 06:54:33 PM
Quote from: PluggFiretail on June 12, 2013, 06:23:45 PMI don't think there were bears where they were, they could have been elsewhere. Legend of them could have come from some travelling beast, or 'bears' could have been made up in Redwall like dragons to us.
......that was before we got on the dragon topic, but unfortunately it started it. :P
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Tam and Martin on June 18, 2013, 07:20:21 PM
Back to bears....
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Buzz_Bumble on June 19, 2013, 08:17:37 AM
Quote from: rachel25 on June 18, 2013, 02:19:01 PM
all the skeletons would have been washed away in the World Wide Flood...

And somehow this mythical "world wide flood" managed to leave all the dinosaur skeletons, bigger and smaller than modern man.    ::)



Quote from: rusvulthesaber on June 18, 2013, 01:02:42 PM
We know that people weren't there because there hasn't been a single primate skeleton found that dates back to that time.

Not only no primates, but, depedning on how far back you want to go, either no mammals at all or mammals that were only basically GUOSIM shrews.  :)



Quote from: Romsca on June 18, 2013, 03:01:40 PM
So are we saying that bears could have existed in Redwall either before all of the Redwallers or at the time of the earliest Redwallers (though they weren't called Redwallers yet)? Or are we saying they were just made up?

Nobody knows. It could be either option, or they could have learnt about bears from travellers from other areas that do have bears. There certainly don't seem to be any bears in Mossflower during the time of the books' stories.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on June 19, 2013, 10:36:06 PM
I have 2 ideas that I think are possible:
1. That bears, like Plugg said, are just mythical creatures, like Dragons.
2. That they are creatures that might not be around anymore or are from a far-away land and are known in poems and songs.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: rachel25 on June 21, 2013, 01:22:21 PM
Quote from: Buzz_Bumble on June 19, 2013, 08:17:37 AM
Quote from: rachel25 on June 18, 2013, 02:19:01 PM
all the skeletons would have been washed away in the World Wide Flood...

And somehow this mythical "world wide flood" managed to leave all the dinosaur skeletons, bigger and smaller than modern man. 
there is no need to be rude about other peoples beliefs  >:(
Back to bears I think bears could have lived in deep Mossflower  8)
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Romsca on June 21, 2013, 08:45:08 PM
Yeah, maybe they just generally avoided the other more intelligent creatures because they didn't like civilization, kind of like today. Bears who live in forests next to big cities will generally stay in the forest and not go into the city unless

-Humans feed it food, and it therefore it gets too friendly around humans

-It's rabid, and it tries to kill everything in sight

-It's extremely hungry, and humans have taken its food supply of rabbits, deer, and fish due to overhunting

In Redwall, they would be way to scared to feed the bears. Rabies isn't mentioned in the books, so hopefully it is nonexistent in the Redwall world. Redwallers don't hunt and there's not enough vermin to significantly decrease the food supply of a supposed bear. Therefore, if there were bears, they would avoid any of the Redwallers or vermin.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Buzz_Bumble on June 22, 2013, 01:53:00 AM
Quote from: rachel25 on June 21, 2013, 01:22:21 PM
Quote from: Buzz_Bumble on June 19, 2013, 08:17:37 AM
Quote from: rachel25 on June 18, 2013, 02:19:01 PM
all the skeletons would have been washed away in the World Wide Flood...

And somehow this mythical "world wide flood" managed to leave all the dinosaur skeletons, bigger and smaller than modern man.
there is no need to be rude about other peoples beliefs  >:(

I wasn't trying to be rude ... simply stating an obvious fact.



Quote from: Romsca on June 21, 2013, 08:45:08 PM
Redwallers don't hunt and there's not enough vermin to significantly decrease the food supply of a supposed bear.

Mossflower residents don't seem to hunt other land animals (although the vermin do sometimes teasingly talk about wanting to taste roasted mouse or similar), but they do eat fish and the vermin hunt birds.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on June 22, 2013, 10:51:43 PM
Az vell az birdz' eggz like zoze zat a certain rat vho zhall gae namelezz liked...
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Kitsune on June 24, 2013, 02:27:36 AM
Quote from: Buzz_Bumble on June 22, 2013, 01:53:00 AM
Quote from: rachel25 on June 21, 2013, 01:22:21 PM
Quote from: Buzz_Bumble on June 19, 2013, 08:17:37 AM
Quote from: rachel25 on June 18, 2013, 02:19:01 PM
all the skeletons would have been washed away in the World Wide Flood...

And somehow this mythical "world wide flood" managed to leave all the dinosaur skeletons, bigger and smaller than modern man.
there is no need to be rude about other peoples beliefs  >:(

I wasn't trying to be rude ... simply stating an obvious fact.



Quote from: Romsca on June 21, 2013, 08:45:08 PM
Redwallers don't hunt and there's not enough vermin to significantly decrease the food supply of a supposed bear.

Mossflower residents don't seem to hunt other land animals (although the vermin do sometimes teasingly talk about wanting to taste roasted mouse or similar), but they do eat fish and the vermin hunt birds.

Guys! I am probably one of the biggest dragon fans ever, but they just don't exist! I really wish they did, but there aren't fossils of them so they most likely didn't. Nobody has ever seen one, too. So this debate is pointless. And it's really off-topic! I don't think either one of you said much about bears yet.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on June 24, 2013, 10:18:07 PM
I have a thing to say about this whole dragon thing:
There weren't dragons in the same since that we may think of them, but it is possible that there was a fire-breathing creature, probably a dinosaur. As some of you may know, it is possible for a cow to breath out fire if it gets a certain type of gas in its stomach (I read it in a magazine once). So, can't there have been some sort of creature that is now extinct that could have breathed out fire? That could mean that some of those old story's about "Dragons" could have been true. They could have encountered this fire-breathing creature. But, as is with most other "mythical" creatures, we can't be absolutely certain of our facts. That all I really have to say on the matter :)
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Buzz_Bumble on June 24, 2013, 10:39:46 PM
Cows can't breath fire. That "magazine" was talking nonsense.  ::)
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on June 24, 2013, 10:44:01 PM
Quote from: Buzz_Bumble on June 24, 2013, 10:39:46 PM
Cows can't breath fire. That "magazine" was talking nonsense.  ::)
Yes, they can. And the magazine wasn't the only place that I heard it; it was just the thing that I got the details from. I saw a part of something on TV that verified it. The only reason that not many people know about it is because its pretty rare that it ever happens.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on June 24, 2013, 11:33:18 PM
Nozin' iz impozzible. Juzt becauze zere are nay fozzilz o' it doeznae mean it never exizted. Zlightly goin' off zubject, it iz pozzible zat ztuff like vot occurz in Ztargate SG-1 could occur. People could 'ave been brought from zome ozer place zat 'ad dragonz, an' vere brought tae Earth. Along ze zame zubject, for aw ve ken zome o' ze fozzilz found vere placed by zome unkenned zource. Vhich makez ye vonder vhether ze eventz in ze Bible might 'ave 'appened on zome ozer vorld an' ze recorded 'iztory o' it vaz brought vith 'umanz back tae Earth.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Buzz_Bumble on June 25, 2013, 08:02:36 AM
Cows cannot breath fire - never have, never will. Whichever you may have read that in is simply lying (and probably also has "real" stories about UFOs, Bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, and all the other silly fairy stories).

The only possible way a cow can breath fire is if some moron makes it do so by pumping in a flammable gas and then setting light to it ... and here's the YouTube video that "proves" it.  ;)


Quote from: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on June 24, 2013, 11:33:18 PM
Nozin' iz impozzible. Juzt becauze zere are nay fozzilz o' it doeznae mean it never exizted. Zlightly goin' off zubject, it iz pozzible zat ztuff like vot occurz in Ztargate SG-1 could occur. People could 'ave been brought from zome ozer place zat 'ad dragonz, an' vere brought tae Earth. Along ze zame zubject, for aw ve ken zome o' ze fozzilz found vere placed by zome unkenned zource. Vhich makez ye vonder vhether ze eventz in ze Bible might 'ave 'appened on zome ozer vorld an' ze recorded 'iztory o' it vaz brought vith 'umanz back tae Earth.

::) At least you've got the right nickname.  ;)
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: rachel25 on June 25, 2013, 08:45:32 PM
Quote from: Buzz_Bumble on June 22, 2013, 01:53:00 AM
Quote from: rachel25 on June 21, 2013, 01:22:21 PM
Quote from: Buzz_Bumble on June 19, 2013, 08:17:37 AM
Quote from: rachel25 on June 18, 2013, 02:19:01 PM
all the skeletons would have been washed away in the World Wide Flood...

And somehow this mythical "world wide flood" managed to leave all the dinosaur skeletons, bigger and smaller than modern man.
there is no need to be rude about other peoples beliefs  >:(

I wasn't trying to be rude ... simply stating an obvious fact.



you know I'm not doing this any more
and how on earth did we get to cows breathing fire  ???
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Buzz_Bumble on June 25, 2013, 10:26:17 PM
Bears in Redwall
   ->  mythical animal (as one possibility)
   ->  mythical dragons (fire breathing creature)
   ->  mythical fire breathing cows (urban legend designed to trick "city folk")

Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: The Shade on June 27, 2013, 08:16:31 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on June 24, 2013, 10:18:07 PM
I have a thing to say about this whole dragon thing:
There weren't dragons in the same since that we may think of them, but it is possible that there was a fire-breathing creature, probably a dinosaur. As some of you may know, it is possible for a cow to breath out fire if it gets a certain type of gas in its stomach (I read it in a magazine once). So, can't there have been some sort of creature that is now extinct that could have breathed out fire? That could mean that some of those old story's about "Dragons" could have been true. They could have encountered this fire-breathing creature. But, as is with most other "mythical" creatures, we can't be absolutely certain of our facts. That all I really have to say on the matter :)

Ya HAD to bring it up again. :P
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on June 28, 2013, 01:30:34 AM
Quote from: The Shade on June 27, 2013, 08:16:31 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on June 24, 2013, 10:18:07 PM
I have a thing to say about this whole dragon thing:
There weren't dragons in the same since that we may think of them, but it is possible that there was a fire-breathing creature, probably a dinosaur. As some of you may know, it is possible for a cow to breath out fire if it gets a certain type of gas in its stomach (I read it in a magazine once). So, can't there have been some sort of creature that is now extinct that could have breathed out fire? That could mean that some of those old story's about "Dragons" could have been true. They could have encountered this fire-breathing creature. But, as is with most other "mythical" creatures, we can't be absolutely certain of our facts. That all I really have to say on the matter :)

Ya HAD to bring it up again. :P
I know ;D
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: The Shade on June 28, 2013, 11:45:04 AM
Geeeez............ :D
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: rachel25 on June 28, 2013, 02:10:49 PM
yeah geeeez................  8)  :(  ;D :P
my clan  :P
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Buzz_Bumble on June 29, 2013, 05:39:46 AM
The "Duck" game started in one of the other areas reminded me that there was similar fan "discussion" about whether or not "ducks" existed in the Star Wars universe because they were mentioned in Episode I: The Phantom Menace. There was no real conclusion to that either. There's also the small black messanger droid in the original Star Wars movie (now renamed Episode IV: A New Hope) which was called a Mouse Droid, but apparently nobody picked that up as a problem.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: rachel25 on June 29, 2013, 04:36:51 PM
What has that got to do with bears in Redwall  ???  8)
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Tam and Martin on June 29, 2013, 06:55:45 PM
Nothing  ::)
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Osu on June 30, 2013, 02:40:58 AM
Fascinating. Now back on topic, alright, guys? Save the mythical creatures/Star Wars debates for the Cellars.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Buzz_Bumble on June 30, 2013, 03:24:33 AM
I just meant it was another example where something minor is mentioned basically in an off-hand way and the fans go a little nuts trying to "explain" every tiny detail of it rather than accepting it for what it is. It doesn't really matter whether bears existed as real creatures or imaginary creatures, and there will never be any definitive answer, but the the quote is easily understood.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: rachel25 on June 30, 2013, 05:57:22 PM
If we just except everything in Redwall for what it is then there wouldn't be any topic to discuss  >:( ;D
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on June 30, 2013, 07:14:41 PM
Quote from: rachel25 on June 30, 2013, 05:57:22 PM
If we just except everything in Redwall for what it is then there wouldn't be any topic to discuss  >:( ;D

Ah zink ye mean "accept".

Ziz dizcuzzion iz remindin' me o' Vilu Daskarz "cawin' card" reference.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Buzz_Bumble on July 01, 2013, 08:24:16 AM
Anything can be "discussed", but it has to be realised that there's often simply no provable answer - only varying opinions, and everyone had their own opinion.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on July 01, 2013, 05:11:13 PM
Zae let'z give a quick "HOORAY!" for everyvone'z ovn opinionz before ve get back on topic. HOORAY! An' na', back tae ze topic...
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Tam and Martin on July 01, 2013, 06:09:44 PM
It would be neat if there were bears in Mossflower. Then they could have a war against redwall.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on July 01, 2013, 09:58:27 PM
Quote from: Tam and Martin on July 01, 2013, 06:09:44 PM
It would be neat if there were bears in Mossflower. Then they could have a war against redwall.
The bears would win, obviously. They could just break through the Abbey gates to get to the Redwall creatures. Then...LUNCH TIME! ;D
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Tam and Martin on July 01, 2013, 10:12:03 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on July 01, 2013, 09:58:27 PM
Quote from: Tam and Martin on July 01, 2013, 06:09:44 PM
It would be neat if there were bears in Mossflower. Then they could have a war against redwall.
The bears would win, obviously. They could just break through the Abbey gates to get to the Redwall creatures. Then...LUNCH TIME! ;D
Lol!
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: rachel25 on July 02, 2013, 03:26:04 PM
Quote from: Tam and Martin on July 01, 2013, 06:09:44 PM
It would be neat if there were bears in Mossflower. Then they could have a war against vermin and help redwall.
That nice of you Tam  :D
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on July 04, 2013, 05:54:45 PM
Quote from: Tam and Martin on July 01, 2013, 10:12:03 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on July 01, 2013, 09:58:27 PM
Quote from: Tam and Martin on July 01, 2013, 06:09:44 PM
It would be neat if there were bears in Mossflower. Then they could have a war against redwall.
The bears would win, obviously. They could just break through the Abbey gates to get to the Redwall creatures. Then...LUNCH TIME! ;D
Lol!
;D
Oh, and I have just heard a very interesting segment in the audiobook of Mattimeo that sounds interesting; In a song that is being sung, there is a reference to a Dragon. Can't that mean something?
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: rachel25 on July 04, 2013, 08:23:12 PM
Maybe
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on July 05, 2013, 12:27:08 AM
Ach, nae viz ze dragonz again...!
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Buzz_Bumble on July 05, 2013, 02:41:20 AM
Unicorns are better.  ;)
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on July 05, 2013, 08:02:12 PM
Ach...
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on July 05, 2013, 09:05:32 PM
Quote from: Buzz_Bumble on July 05, 2013, 02:41:20 AM
Unicorns are better.  ;)
Seriously? ;D
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Tam and Martin on July 05, 2013, 09:25:13 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on July 05, 2013, 09:05:32 PM
Quote from: Buzz_Bumble on July 05, 2013, 02:41:20 AM
Unicorns are better.  ;)
Seriously? ;D
Lol!
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Romsca on July 06, 2013, 03:00:44 PM
North Korea claims to have unicorns... ::)

Anyway, I remember that song! Isn't it like "I would kill a dragon for half a flagon... of October Ale!"?
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Tam and Martin on July 06, 2013, 05:45:46 PM
Hmm....that might be it. I will post the lyrics to the song.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on July 06, 2013, 06:56:28 PM
Quote from: Romsca on July 06, 2013, 03:00:44 PMAnyway, I remember that song! Isn't it like "I would kill a dragon for half a flagon... of October Ale!"?
Yea, I'm pretty sure that that is how it went.
Quote from: Romsca on July 06, 2013, 03:00:44 PM
North Korea claims to have unicorns... ::)
Really?
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on July 07, 2013, 01:52:25 AM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on July 06, 2013, 06:56:28 PM
Quote from: Romsca on July 06, 2013, 03:00:44 PMAnyway, I remember that song! Isn't it like "I would kill a dragon for half a flagon... of October Ale!"?
Yea, I'm pretty sure that that is how it went.
Quote from: Romsca on July 06, 2013, 03:00:44 PM
North Korea claims to have unicorns... ::)
Really?

Aye, an' France claimz tae 'ave Centaurz...
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Buzz_Bumble on July 07, 2013, 06:10:19 AM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on July 06, 2013, 06:56:28 PM
Quote from: Romsca on July 06, 2013, 03:00:44 PM
North Korea claims to have unicorns... ::)
Really?

Supposedly they discovered a "unicorn lair". (Huffington Post link (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/08/north-korea-unicorn-lair-beast-dragon-head-deer-body_n_2259988.html)) They won't allow foreigners in to verify it, of course. Complete and utter nonsense - it must have been a slow day for real news for journalists to report. ::)
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: rachel25 on July 07, 2013, 04:27:13 PM
Quote from: Buzz_Bumble on July 07, 2013, 06:10:19 AM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on July 06, 2013, 06:56:28 PM
Quote from: Romsca on July 06, 2013, 03:00:44 PM
North Korea claims to have unicorns... ::)
Really?

Supposedly they discovered a "unicorn lair". (Huffington Post link (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/08/north-korea-unicorn-lair-beast-dragon-head-deer-body_n_2259988.html)) They won't allow foreigners in to verify it, of course. Complete and utter nonsense - it must have been a slow day for real news for journalists to report. ::)
but what if they did find a unicorn  ::)
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Lutra on July 07, 2013, 06:18:44 PM
Anyone care to get back on topic?
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Tam and Martin on July 07, 2013, 09:20:31 PM
I do......
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Buzz_Bumble on July 07, 2013, 10:36:41 PM
Quote from: rachel25 on July 07, 2013, 04:27:13 PM
but what if they did find a unicorn  ::)

And what if fairies are living in your tea cup ... the likelihood of either is the same: absolutely zero.  :)

It's unlikely, but they might have found the skeleton of a one-horned animal (there's been plenty of them throughout history), but an actual magical unicorn is impossible.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Osu on July 08, 2013, 05:34:32 AM
Right, enough with the off-topic posts. This is the third time you've all been warned in this thread. Take it to the Cellars, please. I'd hate to move this topic when there are others who are still interested in discussing the OP. ;)
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on July 08, 2013, 05:51:28 PM
Quote from: Osu on July 08, 2013, 05:34:32 AM
Right, enough with the off-topic posts. This is the third time you've all been warned in this thread. Take it to the Cellars, please. I'd hate to move this topic when there are others who are still interested in discussing the OP. ;)
Sorry, its a bad habit, really ;)
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on July 08, 2013, 06:55:34 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on July 08, 2013, 05:51:28 PM
Quote from: Osu on July 08, 2013, 05:34:32 AM
Right, enough with the off-topic posts. This is the third time you've all been warned in this thread. Take it to the Cellars, please. I'd hate to move this topic when there are others who are still interested in discussing the OP. ;)
Sorry, its a bad habit, really ;)

Aye, let'z juzt conclude it vith it iz nae very likely but iz nae impozzible eizer. Zae, back tae ze topic o' 'arez an' Bearz!
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: BadgerLordFiredrake on July 10, 2013, 02:13:56 PM
Quote from: Romsca on July 06, 2013, 03:00:44 PM
North Korea claims to have unicorns... ::)

Anyway, I remember that song! Isn't it like "I would kill a dragon for half a flagon... of October Ale!"?
They claim a lot.

Yup, baby Rollo sang it.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on July 10, 2013, 05:17:11 PM
Quote from: BadgerLordFiredrake on July 10, 2013, 02:13:56 PM
Quote from: Romsca on July 06, 2013, 03:00:44 PM
North Korea claims to have unicorns... ::)

Anyway, I remember that song! Isn't it like "I would kill a dragon for half a flagon... of October Ale!"?
They claim a lot.

Yup, baby Rollo sang it.

Aye, ah loved zat!
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: The Shade on July 12, 2013, 07:05:16 PM
Me too....
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Osu on July 13, 2013, 03:31:43 AM
Yanno, I don't believe I've thrown my two cents in on this one... I'm still looking for the book this line appears in, it isn't Mattimeo and I can't find my copy of High Rhulain.... sad, sad day. :'(

Normally I would say that since bears are named, period, they are canon -- however, they are mentioned only once in passing (to my knowledge) in the series, much the same way horses and cows are, before, I think, BJ had the world of Redwall worked out. For this reason I don't think of horses as a canon species. I'd put bears in that same category. Something worth exploring in fanfiction, but not a likely candidate for a Redwall character in an official book, as exciting as that sounds!

But I'm going to pretend I think they're canon anyway. :D I would say bears would be characters in much the same way whales and sharks are. That the sentient characters might think of them in a mythological sense is an interesting theory, but dragons are mentioned multiple times in the series (and somebeast(s) at Salamandastron even carved what they fondly imagined a dragon head to look like), so I don't think bears and dragons would be reckoned in a similar manner.

Something as huge and magical as a dragon would work well to represent an active volcano and would therefore be a plausible thing to bring up when talking about Salamandastron. Bears are.... well, bears. Animals, flesh and blood, clearly not in the same category as mice and weasels but not high enough up the chain of legends to be considered a myth.

[/My two cents. ;D]
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Maudie on July 14, 2013, 07:17:40 AM
Actually, this was in High Rhulain, and by that book I'm fairly certain Jacques had a fairly good idea about what the world of Redwall was gonna be like, so you can't say that it was before it was developed.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Osu on July 15, 2013, 04:25:55 PM
*still can't find my copy of High Rhulain* ....I believe you! ;D Whelp, looks like it's the whale theory for me. I think there's also evidence there for the "creatures from a faraway land" idea, too, if Frunk was the one to sing it. If anybeast had the ability to find another coast with bears, it'd be him.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Tam and Martin on July 15, 2013, 08:37:12 PM
The Hares sang that song together after they won the battle of Green Isle.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on July 19, 2013, 09:20:17 PM
Quote from: Tam and Martin on July 15, 2013, 08:37:12 PM
The Hares sang that song together after they won the battle of Green Isle.
Which clearly states that it was a common song amongst hairs, which means that they must have known what bears are.
In a way, it might be impossible to say that bears are just a mythical creature in the world of Redwall. Because if they are real in this world, why aren't they real in that world? BJ himself said that he would (and did) only use creatures native to his area. And, it just so happens, that bears are native to his area. So, what if he was implying that bears are real in the world of Redwall, just they live far, far, far away from the place that we read about in the series?
That's my true opinion on the subject. :)
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Sailears on July 22, 2013, 12:25:52 AM
...but you'll never be better than MtW!


;)

Edit: maybe too obscure.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on July 22, 2013, 08:37:00 PM
Quote from: curunen on July 22, 2013, 12:25:52 AM
Edit: maybe too obscure.
Huh?
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Sailears on July 23, 2013, 12:08:47 AM
^Yeah apologies, too obscure, nevermind.

(Reminded me of commander shepard song - "fight like a krogan, run like a leopard, but you'll never be better than...")
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Rusvul on July 23, 2013, 02:24:10 AM
Honestly. This is completely irrelevant. Bears exist IRL, and as a writer, does every single word you write have to be completely in character? If you want to pick nits, I mean, how do the storytellers in the prologue tell a tale that's this detailed? How do they ever know the thoughts of that red-shirt vermin? Or his name? There's so many things that don't fit in perfectly, and would be really weird if it was an accurate historical history book, but it's fiction. Written by an author for enjoyment. There isn't a logical in-characer explanation. There doesn't have to be.

Sorry for being a wet blanket. Is it really obvious that I'm depressed as of writing this  :'(?
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Buzz_Bumble on July 23, 2013, 07:56:50 AM
That reminds me of the idiotic questions we used to get in school English (LIterature) exams: "What was the author thinking when they wrote {insert scene from book / movie / play}?"

I always felt like writing answers like: and or The only only school subject more useless is physical education / sports class. ::)
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: The Shade on July 23, 2013, 08:49:09 AM
Hahaha :D
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Maudie on July 23, 2013, 04:07:03 PM
Quote from: Buzz_Bumble on July 23, 2013, 07:56:50 AM
That reminds me of the idiotic questions we used to get in school English (LIterature) exams: "What was the author thinking when they wrote {insert scene from book / movie / play}?"

I always felt like writing answers like:
  • How should I know I can't mind read.
and
  • He was probably trying to decide what to have for dinner.
  • He was probably worrying about whether the could finish another chapter by the end of the week.
  • He was probably trying to figure out how he could pay his bills when the money from the book was still months away.
  • ...
or
  • I only read the silly book because you forced me to. It's pure boring drivel.
The only only school subject more useless is physical education / sports class. ::)


Okay...
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on July 24, 2013, 12:35:23 AM
Quote from: Buzz_Bumble on July 23, 2013, 07:56:50 AM
That reminds me of the idiotic questions we used to get in school English (LIterature) exams: "What was the author thinking when they wrote {insert scene from book / movie / play}?"

I always felt like writing answers like:
  • How should I know I can't mind read.
and
  • He was probably trying to decide what to have for dinner.
  • He was probably worrying about whether the could finish another chapter by the end of the week.
  • He was probably trying to figure out how he could pay his bills when the money from the book was still months away.
  • ...
or
  • I only read the silly book because you forced me to. It's pure boring drivel.
The only only school subject more useless is physical education / sports class. ::)


Ach, zat remindz me o' vone o' me Writin' promptz: Vot vid ye dae if ye could fly?

Me rezponze: Ah vid fly around ze vorld gazerin' piecez for a machine zat vid make a pill. After findin' av o' ze piecez an' buildin' it it vid make ze pill, vhich ah vid eat. After eatin' it it vid make me ztop flyin'. Ze End.

An' ah pazzed viz zat!!!
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: The Shade on July 24, 2013, 09:06:36 AM
Why would you want to stop flying??
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: rachel25 on July 24, 2013, 05:00:26 PM
^Why would anyone not want to fly any more  :o
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Buzz_Bumble on July 24, 2013, 10:09:53 PM
Why would anyone want to fly in the first place?? I certainly wouldn't want to.

Besides (trying to bring it back on topic before we get put in the naughty corner again), neither hares nor bears can fly.  ;)
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: HeadInAnotherGalaxy on July 25, 2013, 11:05:48 PM
Actually it vaz more becauze ah vaz annoyed viz ze ztupid prompt. Actually ah vid love tae fly!
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: The Shade on July 26, 2013, 09:26:02 AM
To another galaxy?? I mean, your head is already there.....
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Blaggut on August 23, 2013, 05:20:52 AM
A black bear is only half the size of a man standing up, and a standing badger a qaurter and a half.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: The Shade on August 25, 2013, 09:13:42 PM
So? You think bears could be possible?
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on November 06, 2013, 03:54:24 PM
The most plausible answer is that they are mythical creatures to those in the Mossflower or Salamandastron area, but they do indeed live off in some distant land.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: redwallgurl on November 07, 2013, 12:07:12 AM
Maybe bears are just like dragons in Mossflower.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on November 07, 2013, 05:09:52 AM
Quote from: redwallgurl on November 07, 2013, 12:07:12 AM
Maybe bears are just like dragons in Mossflower.
...Just they arn't in Mossflower.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: The Shade on November 07, 2013, 09:10:25 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 07, 2013, 05:09:52 AM
Quote from: redwallgurl on November 07, 2013, 12:07:12 AM
Maybe bears are just like dragons in Mossflower.
...Just they arn't in Mossflower.
...Or they would of seen one.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on November 08, 2013, 12:31:07 AM
Quote from: The Shade on November 07, 2013, 09:10:25 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on November 07, 2013, 05:09:52 AM
Quote from: redwallgurl on November 07, 2013, 12:07:12 AM
Maybe bears are just like dragons in Mossflower.
...Just they arn't in Mossflower.
...Or they would of seen one.
Right.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Sergeant Sapwood on December 05, 2013, 01:58:38 AM
idk 8)
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: 321tumbler on December 13, 2013, 08:18:56 PM
Maybe they're like the giants, but not to giant.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on December 14, 2013, 01:22:09 AM
Also, keep in mind that the song said "fight like a bear". That means that bears must have been great warriors.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Tam and Martin on December 14, 2013, 02:32:55 PM
Right.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Spearfinn on December 17, 2013, 12:36:12 PM
But what about Urso Brunov he's a bear?
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Tam and Martin on December 17, 2013, 03:55:32 PM
Uh, he's not in Redwall though  :D
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on December 17, 2013, 06:41:02 PM
Quote from: Spearfinn on December 17, 2013, 12:36:12 PM
But what about Urso Brunov he's a bear?
Quote from: Tam and Martin on December 17, 2013, 03:55:32 PM
Uh, he's not in Redwall though  :D
I've never heard of him. And if he isn't in Redwall, it is irreverent to this subject.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Cornflower MM on December 18, 2013, 10:43:58 PM
Quote from: Blaggut on August 23, 2013, 05:20:52 AM
A black bear is only half the size of a man standing up, and a standing badger a qaurter and a half.

I know what black bears look like, and they're a little shorter than that. I don't know about badgers, (Never seen one) but you must remember to look at this the Redwall way or perspective or whatever you'd like to call it. So you just don't really know, know do you?
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Jukka the Sling on December 19, 2013, 02:36:24 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on December 17, 2013, 06:41:02 PM
Quote from: Spearfinn on December 17, 2013, 12:36:12 PM
But what about Urso Brunov he's a bear?
Quote from: Tam and Martin on December 17, 2013, 03:55:32 PM
Uh, he's not in Redwall though  :D
I've never heard of him. And if he isn't in Redwall, it is irreverent to this subject.
Urso Brunov is in some picture books Brian also wrote. Just saying.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Tam and Martin on December 19, 2013, 07:27:36 PM
Quote from: Jukka the Sling on December 19, 2013, 02:36:24 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on December 17, 2013, 06:41:02 PM
Quote from: Spearfinn on December 17, 2013, 12:36:12 PM
But what about Urso Brunov he's a bear?
Quote from: Tam and Martin on December 17, 2013, 03:55:32 PM
Uh, he's not in Redwall though  :D
I've never heard of him. And if he isn't in Redwall, it is irreverent to this subject.
Urso Brunov is in some picture books Brian also wrote. Just saying.
Oh, well I never read those so I wouldn't know  :D Those don't follow the real storyline of the other books though so I don't really include them.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Jukka the Sling on December 19, 2013, 11:25:42 PM
^Actually, I've never read 'em either.  :P I just heard about 'em.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Tam and Martin on December 20, 2013, 03:04:15 PM
Quote from: Jukka the Sling on December 19, 2013, 11:25:42 PM
^Actually, I've never read 'em either.  :P I just heard about 'em.
Oh, yeah I never read or heard about him.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: The Shade on December 20, 2013, 09:20:05 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on December 14, 2013, 01:22:09 AM
Also, keep in mind that the song said "fight like a bear". That means that bears must have been great warriors.
Interesting point. I wouldn't mind knowing who witnessed a bear fighting though. And what the bear fought.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Tam and Martin on December 22, 2013, 11:02:32 PM
Quote from: The Shade on December 20, 2013, 09:20:05 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on December 14, 2013, 01:22:09 AM
Also, keep in mind that the song said "fight like a bear". That means that bears must have been great warriors.
Interesting point. I wouldn't mind knowing who witnessed a bear fighting though. And what the bear fought.
The bear would probably fight another bear. I don't think anyone else would want to face a bear  ;D
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Cornflower MM on July 01, 2014, 02:20:46 AM
Quote from: Tam and Martin on December 19, 2013, 07:27:36 PM
Quote from: Jukka the Sling on December 19, 2013, 02:36:24 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on December 17, 2013, 06:41:02 PM
Quote from: Spearfinn on December 17, 2013, 12:36:12 PM
But what about Urso Brunov he's a bear?
Quote from: Tam and Martin on December 17, 2013, 03:55:32 PM
Uh, he's not in Redwall though  :D
I've never heard of him. And if he isn't in Redwall, it is irreverent to this subject.
Urso Brunov is in some picture books Brian also wrote. Just saying.
Oh, well I never read those so I wouldn't know  :D Those don't follow the real storyline of the other books though so I don't really include them.

I beg to differ. They do follow the storyline a bit, thankyouverymuch!!!
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Tam and Martin on July 02, 2014, 03:23:47 PM
Quote from: Cornflower MM on July 01, 2014, 02:20:46 AM
Quote from: Tam and Martin on December 19, 2013, 07:27:36 PM
Quote from: Jukka the Sling on December 19, 2013, 02:36:24 PM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on December 17, 2013, 06:41:02 PM
Quote from: Spearfinn on December 17, 2013, 12:36:12 PM
But what about Urso Brunov he's a bear?
Quote from: Tam and Martin on December 17, 2013, 03:55:32 PM
Uh, he's not in Redwall though  :D
I've never heard of him. And if he isn't in Redwall, it is irreverent to this subject.
Urso Brunov is in some picture books Brian also wrote. Just saying.
Oh, well I never read those so I wouldn't know  :D Those don't follow the real storyline of the other books though so I don't really include them.

I beg to differ. They do follow the storyline a bit, thankyouverymuch!!!
I just said this. I have never read them. I am basing what I say about those books on what certain people who I trust very much have told me.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Romsca on July 04, 2014, 07:27:14 PM
Well I believe there are also people in Urso Brunov
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Tim Churchmouse on September 05, 2014, 07:35:39 AM
If there are bears in the Redwall world, imagine how big they'd be!
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: The Skarzs on September 05, 2014, 03:17:49 PM
1.5 times as big as the cougars in my fan fiction.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: LT Sandpaw on November 14, 2014, 04:45:57 PM

I think the answer is fairly obvious.
We already know the Redwall creatures are averaged around human size because they eat things such as apples which would be rather hard for a mouse to carry normally.
So we also know the Narnia affect it taking place because we hear of otters and mice using the same sword, a massive sword to a normal mouse would be a toothpick to an otter. so the Narnia affect (Mice are bigger badgers are smaller etc..)
So we can easily say that bears would have a similar size change and would be the size of a normal bear to us.
That might have been confusing.
All this go's to show bears would be completely possible in the Redwall series just something that was never written about.
By the way the Narnia affect is also proven with bugs, just imagine how big some bugs would be AKA the scorpion captured by Ga'bool, apparently it was large enough to kill a badger lord,
also with ants imagine what kind of terrible force ants would be if they were actual size, and yet we have some running on a dibbuns paw.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Søren on November 14, 2014, 05:03:33 PM
It would be cool to have a bear. Every time a wolverine shows up in the books, I'm like "WOULDN'T IT BE COOL FOR A BEAR/WOLVERINE FIGHT!!!".
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: The Skarzs on November 14, 2014, 06:06:08 PM
. . . Uuhhhh, no. The bear would destroy the wolverine, or a badger, or any other animal in the series.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: SilentSam on November 14, 2014, 08:44:43 PM
Maybe they are thought to be legends in Redwall, like Bigfoot.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Søren on November 16, 2014, 06:10:51 AM
Quote from: The Skarzs on November 14, 2014, 06:06:08 PM
. . . Uuhhhh, no. The bear would destroy the wolverine, or a badger, or any other animal in the series.
Well yeah, but it would be so cool! If short lived, but cool! How about Wolverine v. Wolverine. Would be awesome. Or was there already a fight like that?
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: The Skarzs on November 16, 2014, 10:16:03 PM
No, there wasn't. A wolverine vs a badger would be cool, though.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: LT Sandpaw on November 16, 2014, 11:42:24 PM

I think the fact that a squirrel defeated a wolverine shows that the badger would destroy a wolverine.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Søren on November 17, 2014, 06:46:35 PM
But what about Martin v. Tsarmania? I'm not sure size matters, depending on the warrior.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: The Skarzs on November 17, 2014, 07:01:50 PM
Quote from: LT Sandpaw on November 16, 2014, 11:42:24 PM
I think the fact that a squirrel defeated a wolverine shows that the badger would destroy a wolverine.
Luck. If the shield wasn't where it was when Rakkety Tam propelled Gulo, the wolverine would have lived to fight for a while: the victory was indirect. Also, training in weaponry has something to do with that, and Gulo was quite literally a savage. If a wolverine and a badger, both experienced in fighting with weapons, went head on head, it would be interesting to see the result.

Quote from: Soren the Warrior on November 17, 2014, 06:46:35 PM
But what about Martin v. Tsarmania? I'm not sure size matters, depending on the warrior.
Once again, I think it has to do with training and luck (or fate, if you will). Tsarmina was defeated indirectly by Martin: If it were not for the flooding, Tsarmina would not have been drowned.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Ungatt Trunn on December 19, 2014, 05:52:20 PM
Quote from: SilentSam on November 14, 2014, 08:44:43 PM
Maybe they are thought to be legends in Redwall, like Bigfoot.
But Bigfoot isn't just a legend,...

Anyways, I kinda find the mentioning of bears to be refurring to a land far away: like maybe some travelers went there and has the "pleasure" of seeing a bear duel. I personally agree that they come from the Land of Ice and Snow, as many big and strange creatures seem to live there, like wolverines.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Hickory on December 23, 2014, 10:34:37 PM
Ok... iinteresting point...

Bears are omnivores. Idealy, Mossflower is perfect for a bear. So it's possible. With the introduction of a possible wolf in the Bellmaker, it's possible that bears could either be alive or found frozen from a past time.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: willruth on December 28, 2014, 09:13:42 AM
I also think what would the reaction to maybe a giant iceberg coming to the shores of mossflower with some giant ice age mammals frozen inside...only dormant!!!

            GREAT IDEA FOR A ROLE-PLAY!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Jetthebinturong on December 28, 2014, 12:25:12 PM
Quote from: Sagetip, the hare on December 23, 2014, 10:34:37 PM
Ok... iinteresting point...

Bears are omnivores. Idealy, Mossflower is perfect for a bear. So it's possible. With the introduction of a possible wolf in the Bellmaker, it's possible that bears could either be alive or found frozen from a past time.

The wolf wasn't from a past time, it was frozen to death so Urgan skinned it and made it a cloak
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: The Skarzs on December 28, 2014, 02:59:52 PM
Quote from: willruth on December 28, 2014, 09:13:42 AM
I also think what would the reaction to maybe a giant iceberg coming to the shores of mossflower with some giant ice age mammals frozen inside...only dormant!!!

            GREAT IDEA FOR A ROLE-PLAY!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D
You are really getting into ideas for RPs, aren't you?
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Lady Ashenwyte on December 28, 2014, 03:12:20 PM
Quote from: willruth on December 28, 2014, 09:13:42 AM
I also think what would the reaction to maybe a giant iceberg coming to the shores of mossflower with some giant ice age mammals frozen inside...only dormant!!!

            GREAT IDEA FOR A ROLE-PLAY!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D

Do you mind if I shamelessly steal, I mean borrow your idea for a fanfiction?
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: willruth on December 29, 2014, 12:48:41 PM
   Great,sure (it is not like I currently have the time!!!) :D :D :D
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Stonestripe on April 16, 2015, 02:58:51 AM
Quote from: Ungatt Trunn on June 07, 2013, 08:16:42 PM
Well, if there are bears in the Redwall series, they would be HUGE! Redwall Abbey probubly would withstand an attack by one.

If there are they would be sized appropriately cause badgers are huge in the stories but if they were real life sized they could just kick the abby door down.  ;)
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Izeroth on May 07, 2015, 01:58:25 AM
 A long time ago, bears lived in England. I think it's entirely possible that bears used to live in Mossflower but, like their real-world counterparts, were hunted to extinction.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: The Skarzs on May 07, 2015, 03:45:56 AM
What would possibly hunt a bear in Mossflower? Badgers would hardly seem a match for them, and even if there were wolves there would have to be a lot of them to take one down.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Izeroth on May 07, 2015, 04:45:39 AM
Quote from: The Skarzs on May 07, 2015, 03:45:56 AM
What would possibly hunt a bear in Mossflower? Badgers would hardly seem a match for them, and even if there were wolves there would have to be a lot of them to take one down.

The beasts of Mossflower could have banded together to hunt them. With long spears, a group of warriors could easily have taken out a bear. (I'm assuming that the Bears aren't realistically sized)
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: The Skarzs on May 07, 2015, 05:46:02 PM
If my RP hadn't fallen to ruination, there would have been a bit of a demonstration of how I see how large and dangerous a bear would be in the Redwall world.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Banya on May 08, 2015, 05:45:43 AM
This is an interesting thought.  I'd be interested to see the role a bear would fill in the Redwall world.  When I consider it, I see a bear in a position not unlike Argulor's.  By that, I mean that I see a bear as a creature living in Mossflower Woods that is feared, revered, and generally avoided, lacks linguistic skills, and conveniently snags a few vermin for dinner.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: The Skarzs on May 11, 2015, 08:32:13 PM
I don't think a bear would be very picky for whatever comes his way: bird, rat, hare, etc. I even think they'd be up to taking a bite on a badger.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: alexandre on August 19, 2017, 11:54:04 PM
I think they would have to be of a size not much larger than a Wolverine to be a realistic character instead of a *scary giant monster with paws bigger than mice* and if they were realistically sized, I don't think a badger would be a sensible choice for prey, though one on one, a badger might win assuming the bear is too primitive to make use of weapons and Armour. A smart bear with weapons, maybe the comander of a hoard I think would be cool.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: The Skarzs on August 20, 2017, 12:53:30 AM
To make for a good character, perhaps, but I think that may be too much of a change from its natural size.
Especially since the average European badger weighs 26 pounds and the average black bear is 240. Even the smallest bear type, the sun bear, averages about 120 pounds. :P
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: James Gryphon on August 20, 2017, 01:03:51 AM
It would, though I don't agree with the idea that it must be only a little bit bigger than the other characters to be 'realistic'.

If you're dying to have a smaller bear, one way that it could be done is to have a bear cub. Of course, it would grow larger and larger during the story, until it became too big for anyone to handle.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: The Skarzs on August 20, 2017, 01:15:30 AM
If they grew too big for anybeast to handle then they would turn to killing them as babies or children. XP
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: James Gryphon on August 20, 2017, 01:24:26 AM
Perhaps they wouldn't know until it was too late, or they'd think that because they were there with it when it was younger it wouldn't eat them later.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: The Skarzs on August 20, 2017, 02:30:42 AM
Much like the situation with Veil.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Sanddunes on September 03, 2017, 07:15:51 AM
Quote from: The Skarzs on August 20, 2017, 12:53:30 AM
To make for a good character, perhaps, but I think that may be too much of a change from its natural size.
Especially since the average European badger weighs 26 pounds and the average black bear is 240. Even the smallest bear type, the sun bear, averages about 120 pounds. :P

Being Redwall is based in Europe (England) odds are it would be a brown bear which could get over a thousand pounds
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: Ashleg on September 03, 2017, 08:02:19 AM
Just make it a couple feet taller than the wolverine and we're good.
Title: Re: "Run like a hare and fight like a Bear..."
Post by: James Gryphon on September 03, 2017, 08:30:18 AM
Quick Google-driven length comparisons
Wood/field mouse: 3.54 inches
Red squirrel: 8.4 inches
Hare length: 1.7 feet (20.4 inches)
European badger: 2.3 feet (27.6 inches)
Wolverine length: 2.1-3.5 feet (25.2 to 42 inches)
Brown bear: 4.6-9.2. feet (55.2 to 110.4 inches)

The only other time we see a land-going animal in this league, it was pulling a cart with five hundred rats inside. The gap between the wolverine and the *hare* is smaller than the gap between the wolverine and a brown bear, and the difference between the smallest wolverine and the biggest bear isn't far off from that between the squirrel and the wolverine. A few extra feet is just not going to do it; doing so is an extreme distortion not unlike the "humans interact with mice" fan fiction that people might have devised somewhere. The smallest we can reasonably make the brown bear, if we make it a biped, is twice the wolverine's size.

If we're comparing this to fantasy, such as Tolkien's works, making just a little bigger troll doesn't suit this purpose. We're going to have to move up to a dragon.