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Author Topic: Martin's sword blade  (Read 1896 times)

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HeadInAnotherGalaxy

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Re: Martin's sword blade
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2013, 07:43:13 PM »

Randomly found this while browsing.  xD

'ere'z a 3D diagram o' it'z orbit zat ah found after lookin' ziz up.
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The Shade

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Re: Martin's sword blade
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2013, 08:59:34 PM »

Arr, I can't see  :P
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Re: Martin's sword blade
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2013, 01:39:21 PM »

Arr, I can't see  :P
Neither can I. There's something wrong with my flash player.
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Re: Martin's sword blade
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2013, 09:17:58 PM »

I saw it.
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Shadowed One

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Re: Martin's sword blade
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2013, 12:46:31 PM »

Basically though, Martin needed to have the sword right away, not in a month. It IS fiction after all. And maybe in the Redwall world there is a faster way to make weapons.
I'm pointing out an implausibility in the series. I know it's fiction. If you look on other threads, such as the "Run like a Hare and fight like a Bear" thread, people seem to want to come up with an explanation for everything. Here, it's being dismissed as "It's fiction". I find it interesting that a less relevant topic has is surrounded in more controversy. I wonder why? Back on topic, if there is a faster way to make weapons, what do you think it might be?
I don't know, but I think it would be easier to make weapons if you are a big, strong badger.
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Re: Martin's sword blade
« Reply #20 on: September 28, 2013, 01:04:40 PM »

And a special forged.
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Rusvul

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Re: Martin's sword blade
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2013, 03:22:11 AM »

@Shadowed One Yeah, but if you take into account he was working with a very strong and probably dense material, it would likely take longer than usual.

@Faiyloe What? Sorry, I don't quite understand.

I don't mean to stifle speculation, I am merely stating my knowledge.
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Faiyloe

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Re: Martin's sword blade
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2013, 12:41:35 PM »

The forge at Salamandastron was not an ordinary forge.     
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Rusvul

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Re: Martin's sword blade
« Reply #23 on: September 30, 2013, 02:22:09 PM »

The forge at Salamandastron was not an ordinary forge.     
Ah! Okay. No, it most definitely was not. It very well could have been specially suited to Starsteel, however I still don't know if it could have sped up the making that much. HEY! I just had an idea! Maybe Boar had one of his weird badger-visions and he knew Martin was coming and that he had to make a sword blade of exactly the right size! It's possible that in 12 hours you could take off a blade and fuse another one in its place.
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Re: Martin's sword blade
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2013, 02:35:20 AM »

Here's a repost of one of my replies to a thread on this same subject.

Question: Hmf. About how long does it take to make a sword though?


Hohohoho! Now that's a good question, me lad! Okay, I am literally an apprentice blacksmith, plus I've read every book on sword-making I could get my hands on, so I know what I'm talking about here...

 Now, in the books, Brian says that the sword was forged from the metal of a fallen star, aka meteoritic iron.
First thing, meteoritic iron, ESPECIALLY if you found enough to forge a broadsword (what I'd give to have a meteorite fall in my yard right now.. ) would be very hard to forge. Meteoric metal is usually a natural alloy of metals like striated iron (which is iron wherein the alignment of atoms have allowed the metal to form crystal patterns), manganese, tungsten, alumuminum , and chromium, or any combination thereof. Metals like manganese and tungsten increase the melting point of iron, making in more resistant to heat, and better at absorbing carbon, making it really hard and easy to hold an edge. An aluminum alloy decreases density, making the steel lighter, and more flexible, and less likely to fracture. Finally, for the crowning touch, you have chromium, which when added to iron makes it resistant to corrosion (explaining why the ancient blade still looks so good after such a long time)

Now onto forging. Let us assume, for the sake of argument, that on that night so many seasons ago the "perfect" meteorite fell. This meteorite, in order to become Martin's magnificent blade, will need about equal portions of each element listed to be forged properly. Boar, having found this magnificent piece of metal, now has to melt of the slag off. Slag is the waste product that comes off the first forging. Now that that's done, Boar has to decide how to forge. This process takes about a day and a half.

Then, there's the process of turning this lump of iron(called a bloom, as it "flowered" in the forge) into a sword. First the smith has to divide his steel into edge, haft, and tang pieces.

  Brian said that Boar "folded the steel". This indicates that Boar was using a forge style called "pattern- welding". Pattern-welding is EXTREMELY difficult, requiring precise, rapid strokes of the hammer in order to weld the separate pieces together. Pattern welding can  and should only be done by a master smith. A a pattern blade is a near-perfect blade. It is resistant to fracture, holds an edge almost permanently, and if chromium is involved, will not rust. it can even cut through lesser blades!

This process, even with modern tools, can take weeks or months. With a sea-coal forge like that described in the books, it could easily take up to three months, or in other words: a season!
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Re: Martin's sword blade
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2013, 03:04:03 PM »

Riiiiight... You clearly know more about metalworking than me. :P

I've been working on a pair of identical shortswords off and on for about a year and a half. My friend, off and on, he was working on a single slightly-longer-sword for almost two years. Now, that's off and on, and only every other week for two and a half hours, but still, that's quite some time put into it.
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Re: Martin's sword blade
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2014, 01:49:02 PM »

It is true that Iron is Iron, or steel as the case may be in Martin's sword, but there is one small factor that we need to keep in mind: The Redwall Series is fantasy.  In reality there is no such thing as a super metal.  All steel reacts the same.  The fact that the sword never rusts is again fantasy.  Keeping it out on the roof for who knows how many years would have pretty much destroyed it.  However, since Redwall is a fantasy series there can be such things a super metals that never break or rust.
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Re: Martin's sword blade
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2014, 02:49:57 PM »

Woah this is so cool!!
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Re: Martin's sword blade
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2014, 03:01:02 PM »

It is true that Iron is Iron, or steel as the case may be in Martin's sword, but there is one small factor that we need to keep in mind: The Redwall Series is fantasy.  In reality there is no such thing as a super metal.  All steel reacts the same.  The fact that the sword never rusts is again fantasy.  Keeping it out on the roof for who knows how many years would have pretty much destroyed it.  However, since Redwall is a fantasy series there can be such things a super metals that never break or rust.
   There are superalloys, but they have only been invented by modern technology. Also, not all steel reacts the same: The carbon content or addition of other alloying materials gives steel a MASSIVE variety in the way it reacts to heat, tempering, shattering, bending, springing, rusting, durability, etc. (01 steel, 440, 5160, 1090, 1030: these are all different steels that have noticeable differences in them.)
   As stated before, perhaps in another thread, I think it might have been a natural alloy from the falling star; maybe osmium, iron, titanium, and nickel.
Titanium doesn't rust, and it is incredibly, incredibly strong. Osmium is a very dense metal, though it is brittle up to a point; this is where an alloy of iron would come in useful, to give it some flexing ability. Lastly, nickel is a metal used for stainless steel: it would give the metal a shine and a rust-resistance.
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Re: Martin's sword blade
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2014, 01:13:36 AM »

It is true that Iron is Iron, or steel as the case may be in Martin's sword, but there is one small factor that we need to keep in mind: The Redwall Series is fantasy.  In reality there is no such thing as a super metal.  All steel reacts the same.  The fact that the sword never rusts is again fantasy.  Keeping it out on the roof for who knows how many years would have pretty much destroyed it.  However, since Redwall is a fantasy series there can be such things a super metals that never break or rust.
   There are superalloys, but they have only been invented by modern technology. Also, not all steel reacts the same: The carbon content or addition of other alloying materials gives steel a MASSIVE variety in the way it reacts to heat, tempering, shattering, bending, springing, rusting, durability, etc. (01 steel, 440, 5160, 1090, 1030: these are all different steels that have noticeable differences in them.)
   As stated before, perhaps in another thread, I think it might have been a natural alloy from the falling star; maybe osmium, iron, titanium, and nickel.
Titanium doesn't rust, and it is incredibly, incredibly strong. Osmium is a very dense metal, though it is brittle up to a point; this is where an alloy of iron would come in useful, to give it some flexing ability. Lastly, nickel is a metal used for stainless steel: it would give the metal a shine and a rust-resistance.
My guess it was most likely made out of titanium as its main source, because it meets most of the requirements of Martins sword :P. Since my glasses are made out of titanium, I can say that it is very, very, very strong! After many concussions,falls,hiking trips,hunting trips,mountain biking rides, and lots more, they still remain in one piece  ;)
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