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Author Topic: Lord Vulpuz, Lord of Hellgates  (Read 3456 times)

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Jetthebinturong

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Re: Lord Vulpuz, Lord of Hellgates
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2014, 09:17:34 PM »

Taggerung, Ermath talks about him
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Hickory

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Vulpuz
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2015, 07:30:15 PM »

This topic has probably been made already, but this might get attention..

"Ermath's toothless grin looked ghastly in the firelight. 'Is the fox not related to the wolf, lord? There is none among vermin who can equal the fox for strength, guile and ferocity. He alone carries the blood of the Great Vulpuz, ruler of Hellgates!'"

- Ermath, Vixen Seer of Ruggan Bor, on the legacy of the fox.

So, wolves must be a thing in Redwall. That can be easily confirmed with a quick glance through the beginning of The Bellmaker. However, who might Vulpuz be? The equivalent of the devil? An actual wolf, long dead, that lives on in legend?

Now, I don't want to solve everything Redwall related, but this really sparked my curiousity.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 09:15:18 PM by Sagetip, the hare »
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Izeroth

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Re: Wolves
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2015, 08:12:12 PM »

 Why didn't you name this thread "Vulpez"? That would make more sense.
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Hickory

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Re: Vulpuz
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2015, 09:15:29 PM »

Done.
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The Mask

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Re: Vulpuz
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2015, 04:51:40 AM »

 :D
My first thread on the forum was this exact topic.

http://redwallabbey.com/forum/index.php?topic=6146.0
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Lord_Ashenwyte

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Re: Wolves
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2015, 06:20:47 AM »

Why didn't you name this thread "Vulpez"? That would make more sense.

Vulpez?
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Izeroth

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Re: Vulpuz
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2015, 06:07:35 PM »

 Nevermind. I just realized that I misspelled it.
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Kitsune

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Re: Vulpuz
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2015, 04:06:34 AM »

Hmm, this is an interesting topic. We already know that there is a "Dark Forrest", and I think this is supposed to be their version of Heaven (please do not let this start any sort of debate), and there also is an obvious version of Hell for them, as "Hellgates" is mentioned several times. Despite there being one mention of a devil figure, Vulpuz, there is no mention of a God figure. I think that Mr. Jaques may have done this so that people of many religions could enjoy his books. Many religions share the idea of two eternal places, one of paradise and one of damnation, but who created these is a point of disagreement.
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Albrithr

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Re: Vulpuz
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2015, 06:11:45 AM »

Also, Vulpuz appears to be a fox, as "Vulpes" means fox. This would fit with Jacques' other naming conventions, such as Gulo the Savage, who belongs to the species Gulo Gulo. So this could possibly be a reference to a mythical progenitor of the fox race and/or a reference to a devil/god of the underwold.
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Stonestripe

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Re: Vulpuz
« Reply #24 on: April 16, 2015, 03:19:15 AM »

Makes sense cause there is a badger gate keeper.
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Re: Vulpuz
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2015, 02:06:44 AM »

Although I think Ermath was just saying that to regain favor of Ruggan Bor.
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Belffelyne Hare

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Re: Lord Vulpuz, Lord of Hellgates
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2015, 09:16:08 PM »

He's quite clearly a tribal "god" of sorts for the Juska only. The Devil is mentioned (with name capitalized) in other books, and most vermin apparently believe in him. That doesn't imply that they believe in Vulpuz; only the Juska believe in Vulpuz, as far as we know. The Devil and Vulpuz aren't necessarily the same creature.

Vulpuz could very well exist in the same way that Martin exists and contacts creatures through a spiritual medium. This is further evidenced by the fact that in The Taggerung, the seers employed by the Juska were the real McCoy; that is, they weren't depicted as charlatans. Quite to the adverse, in fact, they were depicted as worth their salt as evidenced by all the true prophecies they told. They could have fabricated Vulpuz, but the book doesn't make the reader feel that way.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 09:18:07 PM by Belffelyne Hare »
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Belffelyne Hare

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Re: Vulpuz
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2015, 09:23:20 PM »

As I mentioned on th' other bally thread, the seers in The Taggerung aren't made out as charlatans and their prophecies ring true throughout the book. Since they've got to get this impossible-to-know beforehand knowledge from somewhere, it could very well be this Vulpuz individual they mention. Since clearly they are real seers and not fakes, what reason would they have to lie about who gave them these prophetic visions? If they speak the truth in their prophecies, it makes no sense for them to lie afterward. However, there is not necessarily any connection made between The Devil (who is mentioned multiple times in other books) and Vulpuz, who sounds more like a tribal "god" of the Juska, who are predominantly controlled by foxes.
The Devil sounds more like the all-around go-to satan myth for your average vermin, while Vulpuz is a mysterious (and potentially very real) god/devil figure of the Juska.

On a somewhat less-related note, for some reason, vermin don't seem to connect the word "Hellgates" with suffering or discomfort, and behave as though it is a perfectly normal place to go for one's afterlife. By extension the Lord of Hellgates, this Vulpuz figure, is made out as powerful, mighty, and everything a fox would want to be. He's not made out as a "devil", he's made out as a "god". Someone they would look up to.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 09:28:43 PM by Belffelyne Hare »
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The Skarzs

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Re: Vulpuz
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2015, 10:17:03 PM »

Mm, well, there was never any real mention of any deity in the series, something I believe Brian had intended to keep out, so while it is possible that it could have some backstory (and be some fodder for a fan fiction), it is probably just something from, as you said, tribal lore and whatnot.
  As for what you said on the vermin looking up to this devil-like figure with respect rather than fear, it seems like that would be rather pagan-like, worshiping a devil, that, while not entirely unthinkable with vermin's reputation, is hardly something one would expect from a book by Mr. Jacques.
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Re: Lord Vulpuz, Lord of Hellgates
« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2015, 10:21:47 PM »

Perhaps they did use this Vulpuz for their prophesies, but it may only be the hinted and vague bit of magic present in the books rather than interaction with the supernatural.
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