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magic

Started by rrrrr, May 02, 2015, 05:07:38 AM

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rrrrr

Is there real magic character in the books? Martin was sort of magic, because he could appear in dreams, but what else?

thanks.
rrrrr.....

Ho arr, mateys, swimming is fun!

I had shrimp 'n' hotroot soup today.


SoranMBane

The actual fantasy elements of the Redwall series have always been very muted. In general, the "magic" in this series usually consists of relatively undramatic things like omens, prophetic dreams, ghostly visions, hypnosis, and at least a couple cases of reincarnation. About the most dramatic thing we see happen is the occasional instance of Martin's spirit actually possessing some living creature in order to impart a message (or, in one instance, to finish off a bad guy). Some creatures are definitely more prone to these things than others (such as the Badger Lords, certain seers, or Ublaz Mad Eyes), but there are perhaps even more characters who claim to possess magic powers, but are really just complete frauds (the Marlfoxes, Zwilt the Shade, or pretty much all the other seers). So, magic exists, but it's fairly rare and exclusive.

This is actually kind of interesting to think about; Redwall seems to sit in this weird middle ground, where it has the downplayed mysticism of low fantasy (in fact, arguably even more downplayed than something like Game of Thrones), but with the light tone and black-and-white morality of high fantasy.

Edraithel

Who was reincarnated? I haven't reread the series for awhile.
"A cage," she said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire." - Eowyn, Lord of the Rings

"Listen for the destination in your heart if you lose sight of your path." D. Gray Man

SoranMBane

From what I've heard, according to Jacques himself, Martin and Rose were reincarnated as Matthias and Cornflower.

Edraithel

Oh ok, I guess that's why I didn't know about it, since it's not mentioned in the books.
"A cage," she said. "To stay behind bars, until use and old age accept them, and all chance of doing great deeds is gone beyond recall or desire." - Eowyn, Lord of the Rings

"Listen for the destination in your heart if you lose sight of your path." D. Gray Man

Hickory

Eh....

Most of the time, it's seer's luck. According to Long Patrol, Midge relies on luck in the first interrogation with Damug, the second is completely different. The only one I think might have a "spiritual connection" is Ermath, the seer for Ruggan Bor. She describes a spirit (vulpuz) in detail, speaks his words, etc, etc.
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.

redwallgurl

Mainly magic is perceived as the spirit of Martin the Warrior, but personally I believe it's just someone to look up to and renew their spirits.
Fun. is a fantastic band.

rrrrr

Quote from: SoranMBane on May 02, 2015, 06:16:22 AM
From what I've heard, according to Jacques himself, Martin and Rose were reincarnated as Matthias and Cornflower.

Yes, it says in Redwall

Am that is => Matthias
rrrrr.....

Ho arr, mateys, swimming is fun!

I had shrimp 'n' hotroot soup today.


vencelylalas

i guess yes there's a real magic in books..since some books fiction authors have the power to create their own characters with magical powers

Luftwaffles

#9
Quote from: redwallgurl on May 02, 2015, 07:03:07 PM
Mainly magic is perceived as the spirit of Martin the Warrior, but personally I believe it's just someone to look up to and renew their spirits.

I agree, Cluny once said that the sole idea of losing the tapestry with the image of Martin would be enough to destroy the morale and fighting spirit of the Redwallers.  

But that said, I don't think that there's real "magic" in the Redwall universe... nor it would be needed. They seem to do fine with their weapons and strategy.
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Lady Ashenwyte

Quote from: vencelylalas on May 04, 2015, 10:41:24 AM
i guess yes there's a real magic in books..since some books fiction authors have the power to create their own characters with magical powers

An author can do anything they want with their characters.

Quote from: TheTaleOfSierra on May 05, 2015, 08:07:22 AM
Quote from: redwallgurl on May 02, 2015, 07:03:07 PM
Mainly magic is perceived as the spirit of Martin the Warrior, but personally I believe it's just someone to look up to and renew their spirits.

I agree, Cluny once said that the sole idea of losing the tapestry with the image of Martin would be enough to destroy the morale and fighting spirit of the Redwallers. 

But that said, I don't think that there's real "magic" in the Redwall universe... nor it would be needed. They seem to do fine with their weapons and strategy.

Morale is a big factor. A huge army could be routed by a tiny army if they did all they could to destroy their enemy's morale.
The fastest way to a man's heart- Or anyone's, in fact- Is to tear a hole through their chest.

Indeed. You are as ancient as the soot that choked Pompeii into oblivion, though not quite as uncaring. - Rusvul

Just a butterfly struggling through my chrysalis.

Jetthebinturong

Quote from: TheTaleOfSierra on May 05, 2015, 08:07:22 AM
Quote from: redwallgurl on May 02, 2015, 07:03:07 PM
Mainly magic is perceived as the spirit of Martin the Warrior, but personally I believe it's just someone to look up to and renew their spirits.

I agree, Cluny once said that the sole idea of losing the tapestry with the image of Martin would be enough to destroy the morale and fighting spirit of the Redwallers.  

But that said, I don't think that there's real "magic" in the Redwall universe... nor it would be needed. They seem to do fine with their weapons and strategy.

There is clearly real magic in the series, Martin's spirit talks to people and the badgers have accurate visions all the time
"In the meantime, no one should roam the camp alone. Use the buddy system."
"Understood." Will looked at Nico. "Will you be my buddy?"
"You're a dork," Nico announced.
~ The Hidden Oracle, Rick Riordan

Izeroth

Quote from: Jetthebinturong on May 05, 2015, 04:43:00 PM
Quote from: TheTaleOfSierra on May 05, 2015, 08:07:22 AM
Quote from: redwallgurl on May 02, 2015, 07:03:07 PM
Mainly magic is perceived as the spirit of Martin the Warrior, but personally I believe it's just someone to look up to and renew their spirits.

I agree, Cluny once said that the sole idea of losing the tapestry with the image of Martin would be enough to destroy the morale and fighting spirit of the Redwallers. 

But that said, I don't think that there's real "magic" in the Redwall universe... nor it would be needed. They seem to do fine with their weapons and strategy.
There is clearly real magic in the series, Martin's spirit talks to people and the badgers have accurate visions all the time

Indeed. Unless all the Redwallers are hallucinating, magic certainly exists. However, much it is not exactly "traditional" magic, but rather a sort of mystical, spiritual form.

Captain Tammo

If the series has any magic, I would say that it's mostly spiritual/mystical. I know Brian said that religion was not a part of the Redwall world, but I would say the magic we see certainly has some religious influence.
"Cowards die a thousand times, a warrior only dies once. The spirits of all you have slain are watching you, Vilu Daskar, and they will rest in peace now that your time has come. You must die as you have lived, a coward to the last!" -Luke the warrior

MatthiasMan

When I think of magic, I think of a magician. So in that sense, yes, and no. In Redwall, I believe they dress up as magicians in order to infiltrate the abbey (correct me if I'm wrong).

But, generally the kind of magic in Redwall is more superstitious. Like omens and prophecies.