Redwall Abbey

Brian Jacques' Works (Spoilers) => History, Legends and Myths => Topic started by: The Skarzs on February 16, 2016, 04:24:49 AM

Title: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: The Skarzs on February 16, 2016, 04:24:49 AM
Mr. Jacques was fond of creating names for his characters, often having a physical characteristic of the creature in question making a large contribution to the decision. The vermin were pretty obvious with this: Swartt Sixclaw, Bluenose(?), Slitfang, etc. The goodbeasts were also known for this, often more pointing at traits of their species or where they live, like Dunespike, Urthclaw, or Brush. Of course, sometimes he used real names, more common in the earlier books of course, but still an interesting decision. I'm curious what others think about the use of these names in the series, or even what names we liked the best.

There were words used in the series as well that we may find curious. For example, where did Brian get Dryditch Fever from? I could look up the symptoms and come up with a real life counterpart (would take quite a bit of time), but it's a peculiar choice of name nonetheless.
Everyone knows the fearsome battle cry of the badgers and Salamandastron: Eulalia! One reason I wanted to start this topic was that I found out something interesting. I wonder if Brian Jacques knew when he used the battle cry in his books that that word is not original. It is in fact a name. There is a Christian martyr of the 300's AD called Eulalia. Go figure that something one would think is so original was used a thousand years ago.
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: Groddil on February 16, 2016, 04:29:12 AM
Brian was probably sitting at a dry dock (he WAS a sailor after all) and looking at the map in the front of one of his books and saw the ditch.

"Drydock. Ditch. Dryditch."
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: Ashleg on February 16, 2016, 04:50:42 AM
Or he fell into a ditch that didn't have water in it and got sick.
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: Groddil on February 16, 2016, 04:59:04 AM
True, never thought of that.
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: Ashleg on February 16, 2016, 05:01:08 AM
It would make more sense. XD
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: Banya on February 16, 2016, 09:53:39 AM
I've always been amused by the large number of "normal" (English) names in the earlier books, such as Jess, Sam, Tim, Tess, Martin, Mariel, Winifred, Ben, Bella, Amber, Cynthia, and Selena; Mossflower even had a shrew named Emily, who's so minor her existence is easily forgotten.  While some names we've heard in real life still pop up - Violet, for example - the later books include a greater number of original names among the woodlanders.  I love the quantity and variety of names in the series.

Some of my favourite names are Banya, Blekker, Piknim, Deodar, Inbar, Sloey, Gingivere, Mhera, Deyna, Keyla, Juniper, and Trisscar.  And, of course, hares with incredibly long names.  There were fewer and fewer of them in the later books (I don't consider Taggerung one of the later books).
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: Jetthebinturong on February 16, 2016, 12:52:10 PM
Actually Jacques said he got 'Eulalia' from a real warcry. I can't remember which warcry or where he said this, but it was in one of the 'ask Brian' pages.
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: The Skarzs on February 16, 2016, 02:31:02 PM
Quote from: Jet the binturong on February 16, 2016, 12:52:10 PM
Actually Jacques said he got 'Eulalia' from a real warcry. I can't remember which warcry or where he said this, but it was in one of the 'ask Brian' pages.
Interesting. I wonder where it really originated from. . . Unfortunately, one would have to do a lot of digging because "Eulalia" is much more common as a Redwall term than anything else, methinks.

Quote from: Ashleg on February 16, 2016, 04:50:42 AM
Or he fell into a ditch that didn't have water in it and got sick.
. . . The only way he would get sick that way would be dehydration. :P And dehydration has some of the closest symptoms of Dryditch Fever, but it isn't half as deadly as described. . .
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: LT Sandpaw on February 16, 2016, 03:42:54 PM

I believe Eulalia was a Nordic word that actually meant 'Victory'.
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: Ashleg on February 16, 2016, 03:55:41 PM
Quote from: Skarzs on February 16, 2016, 02:31:02 PM
Quote from: Ashleg on February 16, 2016, 04:50:42 AM
Or he fell into a ditch that didn't have water in it and got sick.
. . . The only way he would get sick that way would be dehydration. :P And dehydration has some of the closest symptoms of Dryditch Fever, but it isn't half as deadly as described. . .
So maybe he fell into a ditch that didn't have water in it, and was thirsty, so he realized he was degydrated whilst in said ditch and took that back for the books (and added onto it to make it more interesting.) XD
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: Hickory on February 16, 2016, 04:39:40 PM
Quote from: LT Sandpaw on February 16, 2016, 03:42:54 PM

I believe Eulalia was a Nordic word that actually meant 'Victory'.
I'm not sure about the language, but I can second the meaning.
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: Ashleg on February 16, 2016, 07:45:27 PM
As for names...
Maybe it just has to do with that family's background (species, where they came from, etc.)
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: Perifaen on February 18, 2016, 05:29:43 AM
I looked up Eulalia it is said to have been a Greek baby name meaning sweet-spoken.
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: Banya on February 18, 2016, 06:10:08 AM
I encountered "Eulalia" in a biography as the name of a British nun, an acquaintance of the writer, in the early 1900s.  Wish I could remember the book.

I recently found this cool story on Redwall Wiki's page for Samkim (http://redwall.wikia.com/wiki/Samkim):
Quote from: Redwall WikiSamkim was named for Redwall fan Samantha Kim. She wrote to Brian Jacques at his radio show at the BBC and they became pen pals. Mr. Jacques suggested he name a new character in a book he was writing after her, Samkim. In their letters, Miss Kim told the author how much she loved the way the mole characters spoke. Twenty-five years later, Miss Kim and Mr. Jacques finally met at a reading he was giving in NYC, where Miss Kim currently resides. She was the first in line to have him sign her book, Salamandastron.
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: Jetthebinturong on February 18, 2016, 02:22:50 PM
Did they not put that in the American edition of the book? It says that plain as day in the original version.
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: Banya on February 18, 2016, 07:15:20 PM
Apparently they didn't.  At least, not in the version I have.
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: alexandre on March 01, 2017, 01:33:23 AM
I math class the other day, there was a word problem involving a person named, "Eulalia." That was pretty awesome.
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: Aimless Gallivanter on March 01, 2017, 02:27:50 AM
FUN FACT!!
ASMODEUS WAS A DEMON OF HELL
A KING OF DEMONS
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asmodeus  (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asmodeus)
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: Jetthebinturong on March 01, 2017, 08:21:28 AM
As mentioned by Killconey. Asmodeus is typically called Asmodai though.
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: MatthiasMan on March 27, 2017, 05:46:34 PM
The first part of Dannflor Reguba's name, Dann, is a Hebrew baby name for judge.  The next part, flor, is Latin for flower.

So is there any relation to Reguba being a "judging flower"? I've started researching other Redwall names, and I will update this thread on what I find soon.
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: Wylder Treejumper on April 13, 2017, 05:37:01 PM
I can enlighten you folks on Dryditch Fever. In older times, epidemics of various diseases would often occur in the summertime- often June-September, until frosts started killing the disease germs. These were usually some variation of fever, including malaria and scarlet or yellow fever. For example, yellow fever has symptoms which include fever, chills, sever head and body aches, nausea, vomiting, fatigue and weakness. In late stages, it causes spike fevers, jaundice, and multiple organ failure resulting in death. These are all common to Dryditch Fever. The name, then, would come from its summer occurrence, when dry weather caused the evaporation of water in the ditch. Epidemics were also especially common in times of drought, because there was not enough water to treat sicknesses well. This is a probable additional factor.
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: The Skarzs on April 13, 2017, 07:44:29 PM
Interesting facts there, Wylder! Thank you.

Quote from: MatthiasMan on March 27, 2017, 05:46:34 PM
The first part of Dannflor Reguba's name, Dann, is a Hebrew baby name for judge.  The next part, flor, is Latin for flower.

So is there any relation to Reguba being a "judging flower"? I've started researching other Redwall names, and I will update this thread on what I find soon.
I don't recall anything that might suggest that. It's possible Brian had also made up the name.
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: Wylder Treejumper on April 26, 2017, 12:35:03 AM
Hmm, Dannflor Reguba always reminded me of Dandelion Flower Rutabaga,  but I doubt that has any relation to the truth whatsoever.
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: The Skarzs on April 26, 2017, 01:34:44 AM
@danflorreguba
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: Delthion on May 03, 2017, 04:00:40 AM
Asmodeus is the name of the evil spirit in Tobit. (Book in the Apocrypha.)
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: The Skarzs on May 03, 2017, 07:17:12 AM
Interesting. BJ certainly did want to emphasize that he was evil, didn't he? :P
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: Ashleg on May 03, 2017, 04:36:58 PM
Cluny's name.
I never knew what "Scourge" meant until recently, but I had first become familiar with it as a villain name when I was little and read "Warriors" (the villain is a black cat named Scourge) and then in sixth grade when I found Redwall.
It means to "cause great suffering to" and as a noun means "whip"--Cluny does both of those things, his tail is a literal whip.

I found that interesting and it's a very fitting title for him.
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: Dannflower Reguba on May 07, 2017, 08:46:53 AM
Quote from: MatthiasMan on March 27, 2017, 05:46:34 PM
The first part of Dannflor Reguba's name, Dann, is a Hebrew baby name for judge.  The next part, flor, is Latin for flower.

So is there any relation to Reguba being a "judging flower"? I've started researching other Redwall names, and I will update this thread on what I find soon.

Quote from: Wylder Treejumper on April 26, 2017, 12:35:03 AM
Hmm, Dannflor Reguba always reminded me of Dandelion Flower Rutabaga,  but I doubt that has any relation to the truth whatsoever.

       Well, his full name is actually Dannflower Reguba, shortened to Dannflor because Rusvul "changed" it after his wife died. He didn't think that the word flower should be present in a warriors name, and he was extremely proud of his families warrior heritage...... And where'd the Rutabaga come from!?

       
       In other news, I know the names of the throwing devices they used in Martin the Warrior for the javelins. With the given description from the books, likelihood is they were using what are officially called Atlatl's. Variants of these were used in many cultures, and consisted of two parts, the throwing section (typically a carved stick, or small block of wood), and the dart (often feathered, but in the case of Redwall, it would appear to be a javelin variant).
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: The Skarzs on May 08, 2017, 03:19:29 AM
Yes, they were definitely based on Atlatls, but I don't think that Native American name would fit very well in Redwall. ;)
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: alexandre on July 28, 2017, 09:00:12 PM
Terra is Latin for earth or land, and mort is French for death, so Terramort =... Deathland? That is a pretty accurate description

Lutra might've come from Luter, which is Latin for otter

In old English, "Broc" means badger, so that could be why there are so many badgers with brock in their name.
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: Jetthebinturong on July 28, 2017, 11:37:38 PM
Lutra comes from Lutra, which is the genus of a few otter species. Redwall otters, the Eurasian river otter, are identified as Lutra Lutra.

Just as Gulo comes from the wolverine species Gulo Gulo.

Brock itself is also used to mean badger.
Title: Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
Post by: Ashleg on July 29, 2017, 07:45:59 AM
Good to know! Interesting...