Redwall Abbey Community Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Have a question about how to do something on the forum? Check out our Frequently Asked Questions page, and you might just find your answer!

Pages: [1] 2   New

Author Topic: Names and words, their origins and uses.  (Read 1668 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

The Skarzs

  • Redwall Recorder
  • *****
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7668
    • View Profile
Names and words, their origins and uses.
« on: February 16, 2016, 04:24:49 AM »

Mr. Jacques was fond of creating names for his characters, often having a physical characteristic of the creature in question making a large contribution to the decision. The vermin were pretty obvious with this: Swartt Sixclaw, Bluenose(?), Slitfang, etc. The goodbeasts were also known for this, often more pointing at traits of their species or where they live, like Dunespike, Urthclaw, or Brush. Of course, sometimes he used real names, more common in the earlier books of course, but still an interesting decision. I'm curious what others think about the use of these names in the series, or even what names we liked the best.

There were words used in the series as well that we may find curious. For example, where did Brian get Dryditch Fever from? I could look up the symptoms and come up with a real life counterpart (would take quite a bit of time), but it's a peculiar choice of name nonetheless.
Everyone knows the fearsome battle cry of the badgers and Salamandastron: Eulalia! One reason I wanted to start this topic was that I found out something interesting. I wonder if Brian Jacques knew when he used the battle cry in his books that that word is not original. It is in fact a name. There is a Christian martyr of the 300's AD called Eulalia. Go figure that something one would think is so original was used a thousand years ago.
Logged
Cave of Skarzs

Maker of the Sword of Martin.
 

Groddil

  • Abbey Glassmaker
  • ****
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2163
  • Status: Pretty busy at the moment.
  • Gday!
    • View Profile
    • Brockhall
Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2016, 04:29:12 AM »

Brian was probably sitting at a dry dock (he WAS a sailor after all) and looking at the map in the front of one of his books and saw the ditch.

"Drydock. Ditch. Dryditch."
« Last Edit: February 16, 2016, 04:39:27 AM by Groddil »
Logged

I support Australian Independence.
 

Ashleg

  • Abbey Beekeeper
  • ****
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3352
  • Cellars President
    • View Profile
    • Emperor Ashleg for Cellar President
Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2016, 04:50:42 AM »

Or he fell into a ditch that didn't have water in it and got sick.
Logged
"Heed not the rebel who scream REVOLUTION, they have not your interest at heart..."
-Samuel Seabury

Gargamel is a good person.
 

Groddil

  • Abbey Glassmaker
  • ****
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2163
  • Status: Pretty busy at the moment.
  • Gday!
    • View Profile
    • Brockhall
Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2016, 04:59:04 AM »

True, never thought of that.
Logged

I support Australian Independence.
 

Ashleg

  • Abbey Beekeeper
  • ****
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3352
  • Cellars President
    • View Profile
    • Emperor Ashleg for Cellar President
Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2016, 05:01:08 AM »

It would make more sense. XD
Logged
"Heed not the rebel who scream REVOLUTION, they have not your interest at heart..."
-Samuel Seabury

Gargamel is a good person.
 

Banya

  • Redwall Carpenter
  • ***
  • Posts: 1597
    • View Profile
Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2016, 09:53:39 AM »

I've always been amused by the large number of "normal" (English) names in the earlier books, such as Jess, Sam, Tim, Tess, Martin, Mariel, Winifred, Ben, Bella, Amber, Cynthia, and Selena; Mossflower even had a shrew named Emily, who's so minor her existence is easily forgotten.  While some names we've heard in real life still pop up - Violet, for example - the later books include a greater number of original names among the woodlanders.  I love the quantity and variety of names in the series.

Some of my favourite names are Banya, Blekker, Piknim, Deodar, Inbar, Sloey, Gingivere, Mhera, Deyna, Keyla, Juniper, and Trisscar.  And, of course, hares with incredibly long names.  There were fewer and fewer of them in the later books (I don't consider Taggerung one of the later books).
Logged
"Don’t let a couple of losses blow you off your course. You don’t have to win now, just someday." – Terasaka, Assassination Classroom
 

Jetthebinturong

  • Abbey Beekeeper
  • ****
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3881
  • Doctor Who?
    • View Profile
Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2016, 12:52:10 PM »

Actually Jacques said he got 'Eulalia' from a real warcry. I can't remember which warcry or where he said this, but it was in one of the 'ask Brian' pages.
Logged
"Human progress isn’t measured by industry. It’s measured by the value you place on a life. An unimportant life. A life without privilege. The boy who died on the river, that boy’s value is your value. That’s what defines an age. That’s…what defines a species."
~ Doctor Who: Thin Ice, Sarah Dollard
 

The Skarzs

  • Redwall Recorder
  • *****
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7668
    • View Profile
Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2016, 02:31:02 PM »

Actually Jacques said he got 'Eulalia' from a real warcry. I can't remember which warcry or where he said this, but it was in one of the 'ask Brian' pages.
Interesting. I wonder where it really originated from. . . Unfortunately, one would have to do a lot of digging because "Eulalia" is much more common as a Redwall term than anything else, methinks.

Or he fell into a ditch that didn't have water in it and got sick.
. . . The only way he would get sick that way would be dehydration. :P And dehydration has some of the closest symptoms of Dryditch Fever, but it isn't half as deadly as described. . .
Logged
Cave of Skarzs

Maker of the Sword of Martin.
 

LT Sandpaw

  • Redwall Metalworker
  • ****
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2724
  • Status: Can't Complain.
  • 👌 Western Pride
    • View Profile
Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2016, 03:42:54 PM »


 I believe Eulalia was a Nordic word that actually meant 'Victory'.
Logged


"Facts don't care about your feelings." -Ben Shapiro
 

Ashleg

  • Abbey Beekeeper
  • ****
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3352
  • Cellars President
    • View Profile
    • Emperor Ashleg for Cellar President
Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2016, 03:55:41 PM »

Or he fell into a ditch that didn't have water in it and got sick.
. . . The only way he would get sick that way would be dehydration. :P And dehydration has some of the closest symptoms of Dryditch Fever, but it isn't half as deadly as described. . .
So maybe he fell into a ditch that didn't have water in it, and was thirsty, so he realized he was degydrated whilst in said ditch and took that back for the books (and added onto it to make it more interesting.) XD
Logged
"Heed not the rebel who scream REVOLUTION, they have not your interest at heart..."
-Samuel Seabury

Gargamel is a good person.
 

Hickory

  • Abbey Cellarbeast
  • ****
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 4329
  • Status: Mention me if I'm needed.
  • The endless frontier.
    • View Profile
Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2016, 04:39:40 PM »


 I believe Eulalia was a Nordic word that actually meant 'Victory'.
I'm not sure about the language, but I can second the meaning.
Logged
I'm not active much anymore, mention me if I'm needed!

[Insert Rosehip Award here]
 

Ashleg

  • Abbey Beekeeper
  • ****
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3352
  • Cellars President
    • View Profile
    • Emperor Ashleg for Cellar President
Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2016, 07:45:27 PM »

As for names...
Maybe it just has to do with that family's background (species, where they came from, etc.)
Logged
"Heed not the rebel who scream REVOLUTION, they have not your interest at heart..."
-Samuel Seabury

Gargamel is a good person.
 

Perifæn

  • Abbey Angler
  • **
  • Gender: Female
  • Posts: 289
  • "I was quiet but I was not blind." Jane Austen
    • View Profile
Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2016, 05:29:43 AM »

I looked up Eulalia it is said to have been a Greek baby name meaning sweet-spoken.
Logged
"Somewhere there's someone who dreams of your smile and finds in your presence that life is worth while. So when you are lonely, remember it's true, somebody somewhere is thinking of you :)" I don't know who wrote this but I really like it.
 

Banya

  • Redwall Carpenter
  • ***
  • Posts: 1597
    • View Profile
Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2016, 06:10:08 AM »

I encountered "Eulalia" in a biography as the name of a British nun, an acquaintance of the writer, in the early 1900s.  Wish I could remember the book.

I recently found this cool story on Redwall Wiki's page for Samkim:
Quote from: Redwall Wiki
Samkim was named for Redwall fan Samantha Kim. She wrote to Brian Jacques at his radio show at the BBC and they became pen pals. Mr. Jacques suggested he name a new character in a book he was writing after her, Samkim. In their letters, Miss Kim told the author how much she loved the way the mole characters spoke. Twenty-five years later, Miss Kim and Mr. Jacques finally met at a reading he was giving in NYC, where Miss Kim currently resides. She was the first in line to have him sign her book, Salamandastron.
Logged
"Don’t let a couple of losses blow you off your course. You don’t have to win now, just someday." – Terasaka, Assassination Classroom
 

Jetthebinturong

  • Abbey Beekeeper
  • ****
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3881
  • Doctor Who?
    • View Profile
Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2016, 02:22:50 PM »

Did they not put that in the American edition of the book? It says that plain as day in the original version.
Logged
"Human progress isn’t measured by industry. It’s measured by the value you place on a life. An unimportant life. A life without privilege. The boy who died on the river, that boy’s value is your value. That’s what defines an age. That’s…what defines a species."
~ Doctor Who: Thin Ice, Sarah Dollard
 

Banya

  • Redwall Carpenter
  • ***
  • Posts: 1597
    • View Profile
Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2016, 07:15:20 PM »

Apparently they didn't.  At least, not in the version I have.
Logged
"Don’t let a couple of losses blow you off your course. You don’t have to win now, just someday." – Terasaka, Assassination Classroom
 

alexandre

  • Abbey Angler
  • **
  • Country: nu
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 284
  • Challenge Accepted
    • View Profile
Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2017, 01:33:23 AM »

I math class the other day, there was a word problem involving a person named, "Eulalia." That was pretty awesome.
Logged
Why they try to tear the mountains down to bring in a couple more
More people, more scars upon the land

               ~ John Denver

And daddy won't you take me back to Muhlenberg County
Down by the Green River where Paradise lay
Well, I'm sorry my son, but you're too late in asking
Mister Peabody's coal train has hauled it away

                ~ John Prine
 

Aimless Gallivanter

  • Infirmary Aide
  • **
  • Posts: 659
  • Status: lost
  • mostly void
    • View Profile
    • Redwall Lyrics
Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2017, 02:27:50 AM »

FUN FACT!!
ASMODEUS WAS A DEMON OF HELL
A KING OF DEMONS
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asmodeus
Logged
Sleep is for the weak...
More like Sleep for a Week am I right?
 

Jetthebinturong

  • Abbey Beekeeper
  • ****
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 3881
  • Doctor Who?
    • View Profile
Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2017, 08:21:28 AM »

As mentioned by Killconey. Asmodeus is typically called Asmodai though.
Logged
"Human progress isn’t measured by industry. It’s measured by the value you place on a life. An unimportant life. A life without privilege. The boy who died on the river, that boy’s value is your value. That’s what defines an age. That’s…what defines a species."
~ Doctor Who: Thin Ice, Sarah Dollard
 

MatthiasMan

  • Abbey Gatekeeper
  • ***
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 1486
  • Everyday Glory, No Matter What They Say.
    • View Profile
Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
« Reply #19 on: March 27, 2017, 05:46:34 PM »

The first part of Dannflor Reguba's name, Dann, is a Hebrew baby name for judge.  The next part, flor, is Latin for flower.

So is there any relation to Reguba being a "judging flower"? I've started researching other Redwall names, and I will update this thread on what I find soon.
Logged
It's good to be back everyone!!!!
If you want to be astounded by my OLD art, go to http://redwallabbey.com/forum/index.php?topic=7153.0
 

Wylder Treejumper

  • Abbey Glassmaker
  • ****
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2029
  • A Lady's Favor
    • View Profile
Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2017, 05:37:01 PM »

I can enlighten you folks on Dryditch Fever. In older times, epidemics of various diseases would often occur in the summertime- often June-September, until frosts started killing the disease germs. These were usually some variation of fever, including malaria and scarlet or yellow fever. For example, yellow fever has symptoms which include fever, chills, sever head and body aches, nausea, vomiting, fatigue and weakness. In late stages, it causes spike fevers, jaundice, and multiple organ failure resulting in death. These are all common to Dryditch Fever. The name, then, would come from its summer occurrence, when dry weather caused the evaporation of water in the ditch. Epidemics were also especially common in times of drought, because there was not enough water to treat sicknesses well. This is a probable additional factor.
Logged
True worth is in being, not seeming-
In doing, each day that goes by,
Some little good- not in dreaming
Of great things to do by and by.
For whatever men say in their blindness
And spite of the fancies of youth,
There's nothing so kingly as kindness
And nothing so royal as truth.

Courage: not only the willingness to die manfully, but also the determination to live decently.
It is not the armor but the heart that makes a man a knight
 

The Skarzs

  • Redwall Recorder
  • *****
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7668
    • View Profile
Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2017, 07:44:29 PM »

Interesting facts there, Wylder! Thank you.

The first part of Dannflor Reguba's name, Dann, is a Hebrew baby name for judge.  The next part, flor, is Latin for flower.

So is there any relation to Reguba being a "judging flower"? I've started researching other Redwall names, and I will update this thread on what I find soon.
I don't recall anything that might suggest that. It's possible Brian had also made up the name.
Logged
Cave of Skarzs

Maker of the Sword of Martin.
 

Wylder Treejumper

  • Abbey Glassmaker
  • ****
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2029
  • A Lady's Favor
    • View Profile
Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2017, 12:35:03 AM »

Hmm, Dannflor Reguba always reminded me of Dandelion Flower Rutabaga,  but I doubt that has any relation to the truth whatsoever.
Logged
True worth is in being, not seeming-
In doing, each day that goes by,
Some little good- not in dreaming
Of great things to do by and by.
For whatever men say in their blindness
And spite of the fancies of youth,
There's nothing so kingly as kindness
And nothing so royal as truth.

Courage: not only the willingness to die manfully, but also the determination to live decently.
It is not the armor but the heart that makes a man a knight
 

The Skarzs

  • Redwall Recorder
  • *****
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 7668
    • View Profile
Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2017, 01:34:44 AM »

Logged
Cave of Skarzs

Maker of the Sword of Martin.
 

Delthion

  • Abbey Glassmaker
  • ****
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2478
  • On the right is Scaramouche.
    • View Profile
Re: Names and words, their origins and uses.
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2017, 04:00:40 AM »

Asmodeus is the name of the evil spirit in Tobit. (Book in the Apocrypha.)
Logged
"He was born with the gift of laughter, and the sense that the world was mad!"
  ~Sabatini

;D Just in case I forgot it in the post. ;D

 
Pages: [1] 2   New
Tags: