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Author Topic: Vermin young?  (Read 4529 times)

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Leatho Shellhound

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Re: Vermin young?
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2013, 02:42:36 AM »

in the legend of Luke there's Rigdig the little water rat

Oh ya, I remember..didn't he throw rocks or some thing?
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Mattio

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Re: Vermin young?
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2013, 02:44:09 AM »

i don't know haven't read that one yet (6 MORE POSTS)
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Leatho Shellhound

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Re: Vermin young?
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2013, 02:47:15 AM »

i don't know haven't read that one yet (6 MORE POSTS)

It's a really good book, Which one are you reading at the moment?
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Mattio

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Re: Vermin young?
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2013, 02:48:30 AM »

Triss I got Loamhege too (4 MORE POSTS)
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Leatho Shellhound

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Re: Vermin young?
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2013, 02:49:52 AM »

Triss I got Loamhege too (4 MORE POSTS)

Triss is the Last book I got....still have to read it.
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Mattio

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Re: Vermin young?
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2013, 02:51:25 AM »

oh it's very good so far. (1 MORE DRATTED POST)
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Kitsune

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Re: Vermin young?
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2013, 03:23:48 AM »

Have you ever asked your self where are the vermin young, they have to be babies at some point. The only ones I can think of are Veil (The Outcast of Redwall)  Vitch (Mattimeo) And the little band of vermin young in (The Rogue Crew)
Vitch wasn't THAT young, remember? Just small, I guess.
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Martin the warrior

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Re: Vermin young?
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2013, 03:54:40 PM »

I had wondered about that
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Re: Vermin young?
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2013, 03:44:41 PM »

I don't remember her name either, but her son was Zann.

Yeah, but then it got changed to Gruven.
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Tam and Martin

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Re: Vermin young?
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2013, 06:19:29 PM »

I don't remember her name either, but her son was Zann.

Yeah, but then it got changed to Gruven.
Yes because his father was named Gruven also.
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Duxwing

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Re: Vermin young?
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2013, 11:56:25 PM »

its one of the bad side effects of the redwall formula i geuss brian didint add them much as it would be a bit sad to have the little vermin branded as bad.

Sad?  You're missing the greater unfortunate implication of branding entire species as evil:

I've never known the "good" beasts to take prisoners or show mercy in battle at scale, and even young vermin, like Vitch, have been shown to be bad.  Therefore, if vermin had towns and cities, then the Redwallers or similar group would find them, raise an army, and Wipe. Them. Out.  Everybeast: Not just the adults and the fighters, but the workers and younglings--after all, they'll all grow up evil, so you may as well nip the pernicious flowers in the bud.  With a sword.  To the throat.  The  blood of tens of thousands of hapless, helpless vermin would run upon the earth like water on the river Moss.  Killing them all would take weeks, and in the intervening time, agonized screams and death-cries would be heard for miles as the 'goodbeasts' did their dirty 'duty' to 'cleanse the earth' of these 'evil races'.

Brian Jacques was no fool.  He likely knew full well that racial absolutes and civilian populations don't mix well, and lest he effectively endorse genocide as the answer to ethnic conflict, he simply made vermin hordes appear on the horizon, already fully grown and completely evil.

Interestingly, Weird Al Yankovic wrote a song about this topic called "Weasel Stomping Day".  Listen to it and understand the evils of blind adherence to tradition and ruthless dehumanization.

-Duxwing
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Re: Vermin young?
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2013, 01:09:59 AM »

Ah object tae ze name o' zat zong! Never ze lezz, ze fool 'az been taken care of. Permanently.

Goin' back tae ze zubject, zey deal a lot vith ztuff like ziz in ze X-Men comicz an' ztoriez. Ah'd ezpecially reccomend "God Lovez, Man Killz".



It iz nae like a lot o' zuper'ero comicz, like Fantaztic Four or Batman. It iz nae aboot zuper'eroez fightin' bank robberz.
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Duxwing

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Re: Vermin young?
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2013, 04:43:07 PM »

Ah object tae ze name o' zat zong!

The song is a satire that favors the weasels; worry not!

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Never ze lezz, ze fool 'az been taken care of. Permanently.

I'm not sure that I understand what you mean.

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Goin' back tae ze zubject, zey deal a lot vith ztuff like ziz in ze X-Men comicz an' ztoriez.

Indeed, they do.

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Ah'd ezpecially reccomend "God Lovez, Man Killz".

Oh great, a religious book?  Eugh.

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It iz nae like a lot o' zuper'ero comicz, like Fantaztic Four or Batman. It iz nae aboot zuper'eroez fightin' bank robberz.

It's about hatred and discrimination--growing up different in a homogeneous world.  I'm sure that many could relate to such a narrative.

-Duxwing
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Leatho Shellhound

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Re: Vermin young?
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2013, 11:16:44 PM »


its one of the bad side effects of the redwall formula i geuss brian didint add them much as it would be a bit sad to have the little vermin branded as bad.

Sad?  You're missing the greater unfortunate implication of branding entire species as evil:

I've never known the "good" beasts to take prisoners or show mercy in battle at scale, and even young vermin, like Vitch, have been shown to be bad.  Therefore, if vermin had towns and cities, then the Redwallers or similar group would find them, raise an army, and Wipe. Them. Out.  Everybeast: Not just the adults and the fighters, but the workers and younglings--after all, they'll all grow up evil, so you may as well nip the pernicious flowers in the bud.  With a sword.  To the throat.  The  blood of tens of thousands of hapless, helpless vermin would run upon the earth like water on the river Moss.  Killing them all would take weeks, and in the intervening time, agonized screams and death-cries would be heard for miles as the 'goodbeasts' did their dirty 'duty' to 'cleanse the earth' of these 'evil races'.

Brian Jacques was no fool.  He likely knew full well that racial absolutes and civilian populations don't mix well, and lest he effectively endorse genocide as the answer to ethnic conflict, he simply made vermin hordes appear on the horizon, already fully grown and completely evil.

Interestingly, Weird Al Yankovic wrote a song about this topic called "Weasel Stomping Day".  Listen to it and understand the evils of blind adherence to tradition and ruthless dehumanization.

-Duxwing


The good beasts would never kill the vermin young. Think back through the books, Duxwing. In the Outcast of Redwall, did they kill Veil? No they didn't! Yes, yes, I know that you're going to say, they didn't like him and they kicked him out. But wait, the abbey beasts did the same thing to Orkwil Prink! So its not just vermin who are "outlawed" from the Abbey.

Another thing, the abbey beasts spared the lives of the vermin several times. The slave band from the book Mattimeo comes to mind, The vermin army at the end of the book Taggerung, and many more.

-Leatho
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Maudie

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Re: Vermin young?
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2013, 11:22:35 PM »

Yes, the goodbeasts would never massacre, that would be totally uncharacteristic. I don't think that Brian Jacques would ever have even thought of such a thing, that would turn the goodies into baddies.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2013, 12:36:41 AM by Mask »
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