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Author Topic: How big is Redwall?  (Read 7371 times)

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LT Sandpaw

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Re: How big is Redwall?
« Reply #50 on: November 13, 2014, 12:11:38 AM »

As big as Redwall sounds it really can't be all that large.
1#First fact that says this is the wall top race, if the abbey was that massive the race would be a long one not something you could sprint.
2# During the book Redwall it said Matthias went into a cavern that could hold the entire of Redwall comfortably... if Redwall was that massive that cave would be the size of well... just really really big.
3# Also several times during the series squirrels climb to the top of the building itself, that would be one heck of a climb up sheer surfaces even for a squirrel.

That said we do know that in the Redwall universe the creatures are around the size of humans, we know this because they can eat certain fruit that would be much to large normally AKA apples. that means we get the Narnia affect (Mice are bigger badgers are smaller etc.)

Now we get to the part about being self sustaining. this is harder to understand but all I can think of is that Redwall is very lucky come harvest time.
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Mhera

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Re: How big is Redwall?
« Reply #51 on: December 29, 2014, 04:57:44 PM »

Concerning the 1000 hares in Taggerung, didn't Russano send half of them with Ruggan Bor as an escort? That would mean the abbey would only have to feed and house 500 hares. With that said, the abbess did say that Redwall could sustain ALL of his hares for a long time. With regards to food, that would mean an insane amount of vittles to needed to be available no matter the number (these are hares we're talking about!).

Also, the walls where probably not 2.5 miles each. That would make the wall races 10 miles, and I don't care how fast Fwirl is it would take way more than just a few minutes to run that. Also remember that there was a race on the ground that the dibbuns could take part in that was the same distance as the elders' race. That means that it was a distance that most toddlers could cover (if they stayed on course, that is!), so certainly far less than 10 miles.  Also, the Skipper in Triss ran three laps of the walls every morning before breakfast, besides other exercises. This would put his daily mileage at 30, or roughly 10-20 more than a professional human distance runner puts in on a daily basis.

I agree with the posters who said that scale between beasts in Redwall is weird; again referring to Taggerung, when Deyna holds Martin's sword it's described as being only a little small. If scale was the same as it was in real life, a mouse's sword held by a very big otter would look more like a needle in said otter's paw than a large knife. Badgers could still be massive, though, as Mhera didn't even come up to Russano's waist when they were both standing.

I've never really given much thought to Redwall's size before, it's always shrunken or expanded in my imagination based on the context in the story. It's an interesting topic to consider.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 04:59:59 PM by Mhera »
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Hickory

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Re: How big is Redwall?
« Reply #52 on: December 29, 2014, 05:15:17 PM »

Interesting point!

hmmmm.

well, the abbey itself is incredibly large, having multiple time housed the abbey-dwellers from outside vermin. the books never seemed to put an estimate to the number of creatures in the abbey, but to include Mhera's point they did feed and house 500 hares for a few days, easily.
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Re: How big is Redwall?
« Reply #53 on: December 31, 2014, 05:24:42 AM »

Another thing to keep in mind is that there are several scenes throughout the series where creatures venture beyond the walls to forage for food. So we can safely assume that while a great deal of the abbey's nutrition comes from its orchard and gardens, it did not provide all of it. This could also help explain why so many creatures could stay at the abbey at once.
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Mhera

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Re: How big is Redwall?
« Reply #54 on: December 31, 2014, 04:31:12 PM »

I always thought that when abbeydwellers left to forage outside it was for either medicinal herbs for the infirmary (I think that's what Tansy was doing at the beginning of Pearls of Lutra?) or as an excuse for an outing (like in the beginning of Triss), not out of necessity. I could be forgetting something though.
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Re: How big is Redwall?
« Reply #55 on: December 31, 2014, 05:26:11 PM »

Well, not that redwallers are religious, but many nuns who live in a monastary seldom left (not that I am a guru on the subject). redwall is supposed to be prosperous, that is why vermin constantly hear about and want the abbey. If they didn't live up to that, wel, theywould be the opposite of the current condition. And, think o the amount of cellarspace for the food! they could probably be used as rooms, since Abbot Humble and Lonna Bowstripe both used a cellar room as a place to rest.
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LT Sandpaw

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Re: How big is Redwall?
« Reply #56 on: December 31, 2014, 05:54:42 PM »


Another point is the wall height, its mentioned that the walls are massively tall, this is also supported by the fact that a ship could roll on though the gates easily. Including the massive height of the walls the building itself which is much taller then the walls would be a mighty height, I have heard tell of walls being 80 feet tall with 40 foot gates, That's a big wall, however I can not see Redwall's walls being that massive. I think they would be more around forty foot walls with maybe 10 foot gates.
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Albrithr

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Re: How big is Redwall?
« Reply #57 on: January 05, 2015, 05:53:08 AM »

Looking back on my original estimates, those probably were far too large. However, the only farming space mentioned is inside the walls, which makes sense since it is a place of refuge. Really, depends upon the size of the beasts of Mossflower. In real life, there is no way that a mouse could be even comparable in size to a beast that is able to wear a wolf's skull as headgear, so there is no constant ratio there. And, quite likely, the Redwallers are smaller than humans, because it is often mentioned that the trees of the forest hang over the Abbey walltops. There are few trees that grow more than forty feet.  However, due to scale differences, trees in Mossflower could also grow taller. 
If they are human-sized, then that is one big whale, even if my initial numbers were completely wrong.
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Re: How big is Redwall?
« Reply #58 on: March 02, 2015, 09:07:15 PM »

Looking back on my original estimates, those probably were far too large. However, the only farming space mentioned is inside the walls, which makes sense since it is a place of refuge. Really, depends upon the size of the beasts of Mossflower. In real life, there is no way that a mouse could be even comparable in size to a beast that is able to wear a wolf's skull as headgear, so there is no constant ratio there. And, quite likely, the Redwallers are smaller than humans, because it is often mentioned that the trees of the forest hang over the Abbey walltops. There are few trees that grow more than forty feet.  However, due to scale differences, trees in Mossflower could also grow taller. 
If they are human-sized, then that is one big whale, even if my initial numbers were completely wrong.

In the original book, they said that many farmers lived outside the wall, in the country side. These farmers, Ibelieve, supplied food to the Abbey. I think.
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Re: How big is Redwall?
« Reply #59 on: March 05, 2015, 12:37:30 AM »

Can we really get to a definitive answer? To me it seems like it changed several times to serve the plot (in the TV series, of course). It is a REALLY interesting topic, but some of the episodes certainly gave me the impression that the Abbey wouldn't remain still in terms of size (the front yard seemed gigantic at the beginning of Season 2, when Slegar made his appearance, but wasn't like that on Season 1, when Matthias could it run it VERY fast).

My two rusty cents on this.
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Re: How big is Redwall?
« Reply #60 on: April 20, 2015, 04:54:55 AM »

I didn't watch the TV show, but I read the books.

Jess had to climb for a long time (estimate 30 seconds plus)

But since squirrels can scale a normal tree (around 10 feet tall) in around 2 seconds, that would make Redwall's height very tall (around 150 feet).
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Re: How big is Redwall?
« Reply #61 on: November 02, 2015, 09:16:35 PM »

What if we assume that they Abbey pond is actually the lake that Kotir sunk into. It's the only body of water around (besides the river), and it's big enough to hold large fish. If you go on that scale, the abbey would be pretty massive.
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Vilu Daskar

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Re: How big is Redwall?
« Reply #62 on: November 02, 2015, 09:19:48 PM »

The pond isn't what Kotir sank into, the moles diverted the river with tunnels a flooded Kotir if I remember correctly.
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Hickory

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Re: How big is Redwall?
« Reply #63 on: November 03, 2015, 12:59:10 AM »

What if we assume that they Abbey pond is actually the lake that Kotir sunk into. It's the only body of water around (besides the river), and it's big enough to hold large fish. If you go on that scale, the abbey would be pretty massive.
I believe the pond is explained in Long Patrol.
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Re: How big is Redwall?
« Reply #64 on: November 03, 2015, 09:56:33 AM »

What if we assume that they Abbey pond is actually the lake that Kotir sunk into. It's the only body of water around (besides the river), and it's big enough to hold large fish. If you go on that scale, the abbey would be pretty massive.
I believe the pond is explained in Long Patrol.

It is.
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